I’m feeling so uneasy with everything I’ve been seeing. I keep thinking about what we will be this time next year, and if shit hits the fan, what is your plan? I’m queer and was politically active in 2020, so I would potentially be considered a political enemy.
The only blueprint I can think of is what you do in an active shooter situation; Flee, Hide, Fight.
I know there’s that romantic notion of “don’t be a coward, get out and protest”, but I remember the brutality of the 2020 protests firsthand, and even then I thought “thank god I’m going toe to toe with the CPD and not the CCP”. Next time is going to be different. The president now has authority to send drone strikes. Protests and riots don’t stand a chance agains missiles and live rounds.
Flee- I have an Uncle in Montreal who my family could potentially use as a way to at least temporarily escape the chaos. The hope I’d have is that Canada and other countries would accept American refugees, however that’s not a guarantee.
Hide- If borders are closed, lay low and move away from major cities if possible. If civil war breaks out, try to get away from the violence even if you think your side will win. Todays losers may be tomorrows victors.
Fight- If cellular data/ social media algorithms can keep track of you, and surveillance can make sure there’s no movement, this would be the last resort of desperation. I guess if possible try to either find a group for safety in numbers, or conversely go guerrilla as groups of resistance would make easy targets.
Sorry my mind is running and I’m getting scared.
I did not need to change my plans when he was president a first time, why would I this time?
He was no less a fascist in 2016, but there were enough checks on his power that he mostly managed to simply be incompetent and chaotic. He bungled Covid response and gave free handouts to billionaires, sold who knows how many state secrets to foreign entities, but there are a lot of positions in government held by actually qualified and competent people who waylaid his whims. Conservatives have been carefully putting the pieces into place to prevent this from happening again, for instance reclassifying higher ranking government employees so that the president would be able to fire/dismiss them without cause. If the leader of the FBI attempts to investigate him again, they could just hire a new one who won’t. The supreme court being full of right wing extremists is another purposeful and deliberate step to undermine the checks and balances system. Conservatives want kings, and they weren’t prepared the last time Trump was in power. They will be able to do much more damage this time.
There isn’t exactly a single candidate in the past ten years I would’ve called competent. In 2016, every last person running was out of touch, the only thing that enormously benefitted were the memes. Which is why I often mention my biggest qualm with Democrats, that in 2016 they wanted votes so badly they shunned third party voting as “throwing away your vote”. Uhm, no, throwing away your vote is what we’re doing right now. If the system wasn’t simply a monarchy with two choices and if people voted honestly, this is a situation we wouldn’t even be thinking about. I feel sorry for nobody.
there were enough checks on his power that he mostly managed to simply be incompetent and chaotic
There were no real checks. He had way too many Republicans in Congress for there to be. Most of what protects America is gentleman’s agreements that we all assume a normal president wouldn’t defy.
If the leader of the FBI attempts to investigate him again, they could just hire a new one who won’t.
That is literally what happened last time. The house (where Republicans are a majority) wouldn’t pass a bill that makes firing the FBI director illegal so there’s no real difference.
Buy a gun or two. Nothing in this country has more rights than a gun.
you guys have cried about your guns for two hundred years in case of this exact situation
Civilians with guns against an actual military would never work, it’s just some fantasy those on the far right have.
It doesn’t seem like you’ve read much about insurgencies and rebel groups. It doesn’t actually take much firepower to inject enough chaos into the system that you cause issues with traditional militaries. One person with a rifle could keep a FOB alert and wasting resources for a couple of hours in Afghanistan. IEDs placed by individuals or small groups caused absolute terror in Iraq.
These types of things are unlikely to “win” a war. But if you make it costly enough, the other side will decide it’s not worth fighting. The point is not to engage in head-on combat, that’s suicide.
Or hell, look to the tactics of some of the rebels in the Revolutionary War or the Civil War.
Yes, I understand how an occupied enemy force is hard to dislodge. I actually was in the USMC for 8 years and was stuck in 29 Palms with nothing to do it in the middle of the desert but operation Mojave Viper over and over as groups cycled through. War in the middle east was hard because of ROI and a lower tolerance for collateral damage. You remove those and it’s not even a question. Just drop bombs and roll tanks.
I’ve also seen how we can take over a country or city in a matter of nights. I’ve seen buildings leveled because there was a singular shooter in them. If you roll APCs down a street with an armed patrol squad there isn’t much you can do. Sure you could make IDEs, setup daisy chains and such, that could take out a patrol for sure. But that just gets a bigger, more aggressive response that will not be so easily pushed back.
And let’s be clear, the middle east has been at war for generations upon generations, it’s part of their life at this point. Bill who hunts deer sometimes is not a battle hardened fighter. Hell, people who sign up for war, get training, then ramped up for deployment still freeze up in combat.
Also, civil war tactics don’t work anymore, hell,guerilla tactics barley work. We have drones, night vision, thermal, air support, satellite imagery. If the US military did actually attack it’s people, and members of the service actual did comply, it would be an extermination not a war.
To your point about one person looking out for a FOB. First, I don’t know how one person is covering every possible line of attack and approach vector, but that side. One drone or fly by could destroy that entire rebel FOB in second with not a damn thing you could do, with no warning. What is your defense against fighter jets or a blackhawk? Shoot small arms at it?
Sure, if they’re willing to just destroy everything then it’s less of a solid tactic. Will the American military be so willing to just destroy the places they grew up in? Perhaps. Will they be willing to shoot the neighbor they grew up playing with? Perhaps. Will they be willing to level the school they have so many fond memories of? Perhaps. And if so, then yes, that’s game over.
The US military has historically been pretty terrible when it comes to insurgencies. But obviously they haven’t been fighting in their own backyard.
It’ll be interesting either way. I sure hope it doesn’t come to pass.
i think the gun people might be voting for trump
Never underestimate dem/liberal gun ownership. We are just quiet about it and don’t make it our entire personality.
I can’t be the only one to roll my eyes at comments like this. Like in one respect I get it, we want to say we will fuck up the fascists. But on the flipside, what the fuck are you guys actually suggesting here?
Bear in mind per Propublica reporting that the right-wing extremist groups want to incite a race/Civil War. They hate the fact that there is such a stark contrast in violence between the left and right and it’s making them look TERRIBLE.
Bear in mind firearm manufacturers are actively trying to break into the leftist market to sell more guns. Pretty obvious.
Forgetting the evidence that guns for all intents don’t make you safer. We need to use our brains before bullets, lest we’ve all already lost.
Don’t underestimate the US military, as an ally. They are primarily younger, and the upper echelons are educated and all take their oath very seriously, to defend the Constitution, from enemies foreign and domestic. Of course there will be factions that will stick to Trump, like certain national guards, but that will fracture command and weaken our ability to react internationally. The military understand those implications, the potential literal end of the world. In the end, they push the button, not the president. The lower ranks have no desire to fight American civilians either, it’s antithetical to everything they are taught, and the age range is generally people in their 20’s and 30’s.I trust a Marine, a soldier, an airman, a seaman heheh, coast guard too, oh and the spacemen, way more than a cop, to do the right thing.
A vet.
Get up, send my kids to school and go to work.
“What did you learn at school?”
“That life begins at contemplation”
My kids both have autism and higher needs. I also have this population of clients. I can’t just uproot, honestly. Sit back and have a drink. Continue to teach the kids skills for stay-at-home careers and maintain a low profile.
Stay and vote. The way I see it, Canada is fucked if PP wins anyways, and will be hurt by Trump regardless. Europe is fucked if the alt right wins in France and hobbles Germany in the next couple elections. Nigel Farage is going to parasitically eat the conservatives from the inside out in the UK. Trump will pull put of NATO, which means war on Europe’s doorstep and probably all of south east Asia if China decides they don’t mind war.
Running isn’t going to work. Voting and protesting and political action is what will keep us all at peace and ever vigilant against populism and later, fascism. All hope isn’t lost. We still can undo the damage and categorically reject hate and corruption that is threatening democracies worldwide (and already dooming authoritarian countries with massive population gaps and economic damage)
I’m lucky enough to have some security, so my plan is lay low and where I can play safehouse for the folks that need it, I’m not a fighter, but I have what I need and a little more, and I can use that to help whoever needs it.
I’ve got ideas for what the post crisis should look like, so probably try to find ways to network with the folks who are likely to be making that transition once this inevitably burns itself out.
Meantime, vote. Vote like your life depends on it because the odds are that you know someone who’s life does.
Time is our shield, and even if it’s only another four years, it’s four more years the windbag has to survive into his 80s to take another crack at it, by which time the crop of Dem governors are going to be making enough noise to be suitable replacements for Biden, and if he drops dead in that time, it is very likely the movement will be demoralized the same way JFK and RFK dying took the wind out of the Democrat’s sails.
The Redcaps are a cult, when the prophet of a cult dies without an already established right hand who can take over and reconsolidate the movement, the whole thing collapses under its own weight and the shock and grief of its members.
They aren’t gonna wake up to how wrong they’ve been, but they are gonna spiral hard and be unable to keep up the energy.
Hey. We got through the last trump presidency. If it happens, we’ll fight like hell to protect the ones who are most vulnerable, and we’ll figure it out. Personally I am still hopeful that it won’t happen. We all need to vote and not get complacent, but this panic is good, electorally speaking. One reason Clinton lost in 2016 was that a lot of people didnt take trump’s chances of winning seriously. Biden’s polling low right now because leftists are mad at him (and rightly so). But as the election starts to ratchet up more and more, we’ll hopefully see people fall in line on at least keeping Trump out of office.
I hate it, personally. I hate that we get government-induced anxiety every election year, just to get people to vote the way they should. All this attention on Trump and Project 2025 is meant to force the undecideds to choose where they stand. If you’ve already decided how you’ll be voting in November, take a break for your own mental health. Last election cycle I made myself crazy listening to political podcasts, checking 538, analysing polling data. I can’t do it this year, so I’m trying not to get too deep into it.
I will note that not everyone got through the last Trump presidency. Clinton would have had an actual response to Covid because she wouldn’t have disbanded the NSC unit that would have saved most of the 1.1 million Americans who died of Covid-19.
That’s absolutely true. But we can do more about the future than we can the past.
To be honest, I don’t think Trump has the attention span to do any more than hold a bunch of gloating rallies. Ironically his own immunity may end up working against his desire for revenge, as some justice department lawyers will push back until Trump gets distracted by a squirrel or a coloring book or something.
That being said, I kinda dream of moving to Canada. Fun fact: the median Canadian wealth per capita is higher than in the US, meaning it may have a better claim to “land of opportunity” if we’re talking about ordinary people instead of the richest few. Plus the people really do seem to be nicer. The mosquitoes though…Canadian mosquitoes are no joke.
It’s not trump, it’s the federalist society.
Same shit.
It’s really not. Either you don’t know what you’re talking about or you’re lying to yourself for comfort.
trump is an uncoordinated, LOUD kid with a slingshot and a pebble. The federalist society is an unceasing barrage of remotely guided cluster bombs launched from the shadows.
Whether you’re left, right, or center, focus on becoming ungovernable.
If you build up your local community and supporting institutions, and commit to ignoring unjust laws, you can greatly minimize the degree to which anything at the federal level impacts you.
This involves a lot of self sufficiency and privacy efforts that many are resistent to because of the loss of convenience, but it is well worth it.
I’d like to try to assuage your fears regarding a protest meeting missiles or drone strikes. Yes, the President can order drone strikes with impunity. It’s been that way since the first use of drones, early as the Obama era (maybe earlier, but I was a bit young then).
However, this does not apply to US soil. One of the benefits of state sovereignty is that federal armed forces can’t operate on US soil. National guard gets involved, at the governor’s request, but they don’t have missiles or drones. Police are barbaric, but they also don’t have missiles or drones.
So I don’t think we’d see much of an escalation in terms of weapons of violence with regards to protests when compared to 2020.
However, this does not apply to US soil. One of the benefits of state sovereignty is that federal armed forces can’t operate on US soil
From the Project 2025 wiki page:
In November 2023, The Washington Post reported that deploying the military for domestic law enforcement under the Insurrection Act of 1807 would be an “immediate priority” upon a second Trump inauguration in 2025. That aspect of the plan was being led by Jeffrey Clark, a contributor to the project and a former official in the Trump Department of Justice (DOJ). Clark is a senior fellow at the Center for Renewing America, a Project 2025 partner. The plan reportedly includes directing the DOJ to pursue those considered by Trump as disloyal or a political adversary
I was unaware of “Project 2025”, interesting read! While that does contain multiple concerning ideas, this is far from a reliable manifesto. Additionally, ties have been drawn to the Trump campaign, but these are loose ties and appear primarily to be op-eds. Trump has also disavowed ties to this “publication”. Lastly, that “Washington Post report” is another one of those vague articles featuring “according to sources familiar”.
Why is this fucker still alive?
Clearly “the system” isn’t capable of handling the threat of right-wing extremism and something needs to be done, but anybody murking Trump would probably make things worse, not better. He’d become a conservative martyr, and they could point to his death and say “see, we told you they’re violent” and use it to deepen hatred and oppression. This is what happened after the failed assassination attempt on Robert Fico
If he declares it an official act, then it’s not illegal. Drone strikes are pretty official.
SCOTUS fucked up super-sized
He can order it all he wants, but that doesn’t mean any branch of the military has to actually carry out an obviously illegal order. All it means is that he theoretically “can’t” get prosecuted for trying.
A huge portion of the military supports him.
And a huge proportion doesn’t.
Dont underestimate how many people join the military at 18 for financial/career reasons and often end up living overseas and meeting people from different backgrounds. It’s not as conservative as people might imagine.
I know that many do not, but I have no idea what the actual proportions would be. Polls are iffy.
Haven’t been following the news, have we? What you said was mostly true a week ago. Now, NO ONE has legal protection under U.S. law against crime committed by an American president.
While this may be true, and a drone strike may be ordered on US soil, the President will not be the one controlling the drone, not directly in command of that person. The UCMJ supercedes in the case.
Keep saving until I can get a used car, so I can stop renting to drive Uber. After that, rapidly save up a buffer using the eliminated rental cost, and then get my second career started. Sales, I’m thinking. Lots of outside sales requires having one’s own car.
You guys make this sound like some kind of doomsday movie.
I’m not downplaying how bad things are, but if you really have the several thousand dollars you’d need to actually uproot your entire life just sitting around, good for you. Most people don’t have that kind of free money.
And good luck moving if you have pets, or have family members you care for. Have you guys even been to your “target” countries? Do you have plans for how you’ll make income? How does healthcare work in your target country?
If you have all that figured out, and have nothing to leave behind, then good for you, I really do hope you end up better off. But this panicked response of “What are you waiting for, run!!!” is way more entitled than people seem to think.
What you forgot to mention is that the “target” country has to want you. Even progressive Americans seem to have the belief (american exceptionalism) that they can just “move” to another country if they wake up in November to find the wrong guy won. In reality, you have to apply to immigrate to a country. Your application is gone through with a fine tooth comb. It will be 50 pages of information including blood work, urine tests, xrays, and FBI background checks. You may be granted a visa if you have something the country wants or needs, like a higher qualification or a job offer. But chicken and egg, it will be near impossible to get a job offer without a visa. And if you have a high BMI, medical issues, or an arrest record, you may as well forget about it. Many countries require that you have a 4 figure wad of free cash to get yourself started. If your target country has already met its immigration quota for the year then forget about it. If your target country has thousands of applicants (which most “good” countries do at any time), then your application has to rise above the others e.g., you have a job offer and a phd. Assuming you get through all this, it will take months to well over a year to get through the process. Want to bring your pets? Factor in 5-10k USD each for shipping, veterinary, and quarantine fees.
The bottom line is… stop yammering on about moving to another country if the orange shitstain wins. If you haven’t started the process yet of your own volition then you’ve likely not the tenacity to work that Sisyphean task.
Instead, vote.
It will be 50 pages of information including blood work, urine tests, xrays, and FBI background checks.
Um, no. I’ve done visa and citizenship paperwork, it’s not easy, and you’re right that you need a compelling case for why you should be accepted. But I’ve never heard of requiring that extensive of medical checks for visa applications, especially not for from countries that have developed medical systems. Though some countries do require medical records. You’re right often a background check is required, but in my case at least, an apostilled affidavit where I just promised I was a good boy was accepted.
Perhaps the country you applied to is an outlier. Or maybe as is often the case, you applied a long time ago when things were simpler.
It was only a bit over 2 years ago. And no not particularly and outlier for US citizens at least. My sister also applied to another country and didn’t have big problems.
It will be 50 pages of information including blood work, urine tests, xrays, and FBI background checks.
Um, no. I’ve done visa and citizenship paperwork, it’s not easy, and you’re right that you need a compelling case for why you should be accepted. But I’ve never heard of requiring that extensive of medical checks for visa applications, especially not for from countries that have developed medical systems. Though some countries do require medical records. You’re right often a background check is required, but in my case at least, a notorized affidavit where I just promised I was a good boy was accepted.
Don’t think you know what is 110% coming if Republicans get the presidency back.
And the even longer list of consequences that would result if these things came to be
Damn, I guess you’re right. It’s a shame I don’t have the money to move.
I’ll have to abandon my elderly family, put my pets up for adoption, and stow away on a local fishing boat for a few months. I guess it’s the only way.
…but seriously, this is my point. Yes, this is all bad, but what do you want me to do? Being able to just jump ship is a privilege I do not have. If the building is burning, then I’m not getting out in time.
Canada will not accept US citizens as refugees unless things really goes to hell, we’re not even accepting refugees who come from other countries via the USA as they’re supposed to ask for refugee status in the first of the two country they step in. So yeah, don’t get your hopes up, Canada isn’t a consolation prize for you guys, fix your own shit.
Why so much hate for people just looking to survive?
It’s just the truth bud, people living in the richest country in the world can’t be bothered to go out and vote (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/voter-turnout-rate-by-age-usa the majority of electors under 30 support the Democrats) and every US elections research for Canadian immigration laws goes through the roof? If you guys can’t make your own country work (even when you’ve got an amendment made to secure people’s right to protect themselves against the shit show your government has become!) then why would you expect other countries to just welcome everyone of you? It’s not as if you would extend the same favor, people coming from the poorest countries in the world end up being detained when they cross into the USA.
