Three individuals targeted National Gallery paintings an hour after Phoebe Plummer and Anna Holland were jailed for similar attack in 2022
Climate activists have thrown tomato soup over two Sunflowers paintings by Vincent van Gogh, just an hour after two others were jailed for a similar protest action in 2022.
Three supporters of Just Stop Oil walked into the National Gallery in London, where an exhibition of Van Gogh’s collected works is on display, at 2.30pm on Friday afternoon, and threw Heinz soup over Sunflowers 1889 and Sunflowers 1888.
The latter was the same work targeted by Phoebe Plummer and Anna Holland in 2022. That pair are now among 25 supporters of Just Stop Oil in jail for climate protests.
🌍 > 🖼️
While I think this was a stupid way to go about risking jail time for a noble cause, I would like to remind everybody here of what everybody in the 60s thought about MLK and his peaceful protests:
There never has nor will there ever be such a thing as “the right way to protest.” The right way to protest means out of sight where it can be conveniently ignored.
I agree except that potential damage to historical pieces makes me extremely upset.
I would prefer they ACTUALLY riot to that.
… and, in fact, that would probably be much more effective.
They tried protesting at oil infrastructure, they stopped multiple oil terminals in the UK being used for weeks and caused shortages in various parts of the UK. Hundreds went to prison and everyone forgot about it after a week.
They throw soup at glass, 2 people go to a police station for a few days and people are still talking about it months later.
Unfortunately, they have to exist within the constraints of modern news media, outrage cycles and social media, and that influences their decisions.
I mean JSO never actually tried to damage historical pieces. The paintings are behind glass
Interesting that you think this is stupid, yet you acknowledge that protests are inherently uncomfortable.
People are talking about Just Stop Oil every time they pull one of these stunts. Sounds like they’re accomplishing their goals will bells on.
I mean stupid as in “you might as well do something worth the punishment” or that they might have been better off blocking traffic through a major thoroughfare or something rather than possibly damaging a cultural artifact.
I agree with the concept, just not this particular executation.
Uh… do you know what their punishment is for this? They usually get carted to the local jail, held for between a few hours and a few days, then released once the media have gone away. The offense is so minor that the punishment is the equivalent of getting lost in a corn maze. Usually, the JSO people are older people who don’t have much going on and so it’s literally no skin off their back if they have to sit in the local jail for a few days. (Also, UK jails are much more humane than US jails, so they don’t really suffer)
See, I don’t think you do. I’m not trying to No True Scotsman you, but if you agree that protests inherently have to upset people a little bit, you can’t then turn around and say “but don’t upset us like this!”. You don’t get to pick and choose what protests are morally correct or even worth it - that’s the protestor’s job, not yours!
While that’s often the punishment, this particular event was a repeat of a previous event that resulted in a two year prison sentence. At least that one particular judge is throwing the book at climate protesters for minor acts.
And why is that? At least partially because a) like it or not, oil barons have a lot of influence and b) people are whinging about it, which makes judges think that they’re doing the will of the people.
This is why I said “you might as well do something worth the punishment.” In the US, protesting can get you more harsh sentences than crimes like assault or robbery. And not to “That’s, like, just your opinion, man” but…it’s just my opinion that their time would’ve been better spent blocking the street and holding up rush hour traffic or something for the punishment that they got. Like you said, it clearly worked because people are talking about it - and talking about it enough that the arguing in another post on this article got the post locked.
I’m not here to rag on them. Again, there’s no “right way to protest,” and this is a noble cause to protest for.
Plummer was further sentenced to three months in jail for interfering with national infrastructure by taking part in a slow march along Earls Court Road in west London in November 2023. Her co-defendants in that case, Chiara Sarti and Daniel Hall, received community orders.
She did exactly what you suggested, except you havent heard about it because it doesnt generate media coverage, this does.
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It was covered by glass, unclutch your fucking pearls already.
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Van Gogh is my favorite painter, and I would still rather have a habitable planet for future generations than have Sunflowers. If you’re more mad about this than you are about what big oil and gas companies are doing, sit down and have a good hard think about where your priorities are. I do not give a shit if you “agree with their message but not their tactics” or if you “think it makes the cause look bad” or whatever other bullshit you want to spew to cover your ass right now. Ultimately, if this caused you to feel a greater sense of righteous anger than the wholesale destruction of our environment for profit does, you are part of the problem. I’d rather side with the people who are trying to make a difference, even if I don’t like how they do it, than side with the people plundering our world for personal gain.
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So if throwing paint at a entierly replaceable cover for a dusty old painting is too far gone to be acceptable, what action can we take to stop oil production? Like. It needs to stop. To continue producing fossil fuels is a death cult. It needs to stop, like, a decade ago. I ask genuinely, how is this too far, and what is an acceptable response to an existential threat?
So if throwing paint at a entierly replaceable cover for a dusty old painting is too far gone to be acceptable, what action can we take to stop oil production?
God, I wish someone could actually trace the train of events that would lead to reduced oil production from this other than some bizarre notion that throwing soup at a priceless artifact of human heritage will Energize The Masses™ or suddenly convince people who think climate change is a hoax or overblown that it’s actually a serious problem.
Imagine if these activists spent more time going after companies benefiting from fossil fuel production rather than throwing soup in museums…
They’ve done that too, and have encountered media blackouts.
As nice as it would be if they could simply fix the climate problem with the disruption a handful of protests cause, they can’t, and need to draw public attention to the problem.
These demonstrations open up the conversation in threads like this - you agree there’s a problem, you agree these protests don’t fix the problem, so let’s talk about what will.
Seems to me that it would be pretty difficult to encounter a media blackout to do this sort of thing at, for example, global climate summits, oil company shareholder meetings, etc.
But I’m not seeing much soup being thrown there.
In Germany, protestors repeatedly shut oil pipelines off and locked themselves to the valves to prevent their reopening, blocking oil flow for several hours every time. I consume a lot of news, both mainstream and in my leftist bubble. That story barely registered anywhere.
The exact same protestors threw mashed potatoes at a Van Gogh. They were the main headline for over a week.
Hell, some guy set himself on fire a few years ago and it was in the news for half a day.
The media blackout is real, but it’s not a huge conspiracy. It’s just that the media reports on what gets them clicks, and nothing generates clicks like outrage. That’s why so much reporting also conveniently forgets to mention that the paintings are protected by plexiglass and nothing ever got damaged. But all the controversy gets people talking, and some people will inevitably question what drives people to do something like that. That is the real objective. If they wanted to be popular, they’d to greenwashed recycling videos on YouTube instead, or whatever else is hip with the neoliberal peddlers of personal responsibility at the moment.
By ‘media blackout’ they mean ‘it was a blip on the radar like this is, but this is NOW and thus relevant and important’
The people who talk about ‘media blackouts’ also seem to forget that everyone has an internet-connected video camera in their pockets.
Right? Go throw soup at Darren Woods or one of the oil execs, not at a painting
Remember when famous assholes used to get pies in the face? What happened to that?
I remember when people would throw animal blood on rich fucks going to gala events who were wearing fur.
Right? I admit I don’t have the bravery it takes to do stuff like that, but it seems like neither does anyone else anymore.
So… that’s straight up assaut. There’s a good reason why they changed tactics, and it’s mostly because throwing soup at a Plexiglas barrier is 100x less destructive to property than covering valuable furs with blood.
I find it absolutely mind-boggling that you all are acknowledging that protests that make people uncomfortable are what works, then coming to the conclusion “but not like this, you can’t protest like this, that’s ridiculous!”
Then they wouldn’t get their five minutes of fame, though. And even worse, they couldn’t even claim their five minutes of fame was some self-righteous moment that they should be lionized for. A fate worse than death, basically.
I see shit like this and I think about people like Erin Brockovich and Karen Silkwood…
Sounds a lot like boring work that has no grand trumpets or asspats at the end of the rainbow, or that requires specialized skills and education. Can’t we just draw some attention to ourselves, cry out “Climate change!” and call it a day?
Can I request an article or at least a transcription?
YouTube provides transcripts. It’s in the discription on the website
YouTube provides transcripts.
Wow. I am behind the times. I’ll look through it then.
Also the section “jso critics” and “does it work”
“No art on a dead planet” is a braindead justification and does not in any way outline how vandalism of art is supposed to translate into climate activism, while the four criteria outlined for activism are valid but in no way provide a special justification for vandalism of cultural artifacts, which has a significantly greater backlash from the exact kind of educated people most likely to get involved in climate activism, and very little disruptive potential.
“I understand that we’re pissing people off but there’s no other way to get attention” and “Negative attention is good attention, because maybe it will cause people to become positively engaged with the cause” are not particularly compelling rebuttals in the critics section.
“JSO was central in setting the 2024 Labour agenda” is utterly deluded, while all the cited actions by their sister organizations in Europe are much more traditional instances of civil disobedience that have long-proven track records and a clear and logical progression of action-to-influence.
This really reinforces my view that JSO are terribly naive and have no real idea on how their actions will seriously lead to mass change of opinions on climate change.
“No art on a dead planet” is a braindead justification and does not in any way outline how vandalism of art is supposed to translate into climate activism
If damaged art hurts your feelings get mad at the government killing all art on the planet and not the activists partially damaging some art.
“I understand that we’re pissing people off but there’s no other way to get attention” … not particularly compelling rebuttals in the critics section
Why not? How else should they be getting attention?
“JSO was central in setting the 2024 Labour agenda” is utterly deluded,
I won’t disagree
This really reinforces my view that JSO are terribly naive and have no real idea on how their actions will seriously lead to mass change of opinions on climate change.
Yeah I don’t get the vibe from you that you’d change your view
Partially related but do you have any evidence that jso tactics has a “greater backlash from the exact kind of educated people most likely to get involved in climate activism” or is that kinda vibes based
Go fuck with the billionaires and lawmakers at their homes, offices, doctor’s appointments, at the store, while they’re out for coffee, etc. Fuck with the people actually causing the problem
What’s your plan to keep society functioning with the immediate end of fossil fuels?
Kinda dumb of you to assume the only option to stop oil is an immediate cessation of all usage
Kinda dumb to call for the end of fossil fuels a decade ago.
Why?
We don’t have a means to replace energy needs today and we were even further away a decade ago.
You don’t think maybe we would be closer to having that means of energy production now if we started 50 years ago when we noticed the impacts of climate change?
Youre assuming climate activists have the MORONIC idea of just transitioning to shit tech, instead of the idea of investing in making tech that can replace oil usage
That wasn’t my question. But if you must know, if the choice is between “maintaining the current standard of living” and “stop risking the habitability of the one place known that can support life”, I choose the latter. Everytime. And it’s crazy to choose the former.
It’s crazy to think those are the only choices.
But what about The Economy®™?!? We can’t possibly have Apple only make 10s of billions of dollars in profit instead of 100s of billions of dollars because we made the price of goods destroying our planet more expensive!
If we start to make the cost of goods proportional to the associated environmental destruction, I won’t be able to buy the 12th pair of Nikes for my shoe collection. I might have to wear my clothes more than once, and GASP, take public transit places.
Like sure, our grandkids may get to grow up in a world looking like something out of Mad Max, but at least I wouldn’t have to suffer any inconveniences to my lifestyle.
Why does it have to be an immediate end and not a phase out? Right now, we’re not even phasing out.
When someone calls for ending something last decade it required immediate action now.
Society functioning in the way it’s currently functioning is the cause of the problem. It’s gonna stop because we change how we do things, or it’ll get stopped in a way we have no control over, which is worse across every possible metric.
My tin hat tingles with these guys they’re either too upper middle-class to actually understand the real world or they’re making sure climate activists are a running joke.
No bad publicity.
Here are a few reasons why thats not true
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People talking about these guys being dumbasses does not equate to people taking climate change seriously.
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There is limited bandwidth for publicity, these morons are taking publicity away from people actively doing the research, enacting changes, building things the help mitigate climate change.
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They give the opportunity for climate change deniers to lump all climate change activists together with these idiots, allowing them to replace the message of “Act against climate change” to look at all these dumbass climate change activists.
I’m taking it seriously. Are you not taking it seriously?
are taking publicity away
And this is being published where?
Here’s my challenge to you: every time you see Just Stop Oil pop up, post these articles. Get people excited about actually doing something.They give the opportunity for climate change deniers to lump all climate change activists together with these idiots
Deniers are too far gone. You spray paint stone henge, they complain about the lichen. You splash color on a ferrari dealership, they complain about the small business owners. You bomb an oil rig, they say that violence never solves anything. They’re already not on our side.
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To everyone in this thread who has nothing but insults for these activists, what are you doing against climate breakdown? Besides sitting on your couch, insulting people who are actually trying to make a difference, facing jail time?
You are the kind of people who would’ve called the Suffragettes names and said they’re hurting the cause, as well.
Compared to what they’ve accomplished by getting some plexiglass wet, it seems like sitting on my couch has accomplished the same. Maybe more by staying home, unless they rode bikes or walked to do the deed.
No, no, you see, all attention is good attention, and attention is the most valuable thing to the climate change movement right now. That’s the issue. Not enough people are AWARE that it’s a THING. If they were, we would be making much more progress than we currently are.
/s
Not enough people are AWARE that it’s a THING.
I mean, considering how little has happened?
Don’t we need radicals at this point?Isn’t it said that violence is the language of the unheard?
I’m down with violence, man. But human history and culture isn’t the enemy here, it shouldn’t be the target, and simply ‘raising awareness’ is no longer the goal. Take a sledgehammer to an oil exec’s front door if you want to go the direct action route, not to the Magna Carta.
There are actually probably more effective uses of violence than the oil exec’s front door. But you get what I mean, I hope. Action alone is not enough, it must be action that causes something useful to the cause, like increasing fear in the politicos or ultra-wealthy (as the Suffragists did with arson and bombing campaigns targeting both), or reducing the effectiveness of society as a whole until negotiations are had (as with a general strike, though that’s not violent, generally).
Human history and culture are leverage. The fact that people care about them is why they’re valuable.
Take a sledgehammer to an oil exec’s front door
Yeah, go for it. I support you.
it must be action that causes something useful to the cause,
Public attention can spur recruitment waves for the targets you really care about. If any campaign is to be effective, you need people to know who you are.
Definitely more. You haven’t pissed a bunch of people off that are on your side on this issue.
If some soup on plexiglass can convince you to let the planet burn, you were never on the side of progress.
This right here. For shame on anyone who genuinely thinks they’re on the right side of history, whining about soup on a Plexiglas barrier.
If some soup on plexiglass can convince you to let the planet burn, you were never on the side of progress.
I’m not the one that needs convincing. But I’m sure the majority that you actually need on your side are simply insufficiently pure, and a bunch of reactionary dogs anyway, so who cares about gaining their approval for the cause?
Why are you placing climate change at the feet of the poor? Go fuck with billionaires and politicians who are causing this issue. All you’re doing is stomping the person below you because you’re mad at billionaires
These clowns ain’t doing anything useful about it either.
Propose something better then. Or better yet, do it.
I ride my bike 24 miles a day every weekday of the year , use hugle culture and no dig in my garden, recycle that’s just the start do one, they’re virtue signalling twats.
Great, you’re reducing your personal impact. That’s a great start. I’m sure our politicians will think of your hugle culture and recycling when they sign the next gas drilling licenses. We can’t ‘individual action’ our way out of this one.
And btw, I’m sure the activists do their recycling too.
Good for them.
They’re getting media attention for their message. That isn’t easy to do.
These pro-acrylic protests are getting out of hand!
Have my upvote, you monster.
Pro-acrylic or anti-ear mutilation?
Well, they are oil paintings sooo…
Yeah, but they were painted by a guy who cut off his ear, so maybe this is the Coalition of Two-Eared Painters.
I know Lemmy has mixed feelings here, but I personally applaud these activists for risking prison time to draw attention to a major existential threat.
I find it quite entertaining to see all the art aficionados coming out so shook by them getting a little bit of soup onto some plexiglass and a picture frame that they probably couldn’t even describe before these incidents. Close your eyes, Is it walnut or cherry? Painted or oil finished? Ornate or simple? 5 or 7 inches wide? Symmetrical or asymmetrical along a horizontal axis?
These protests, which thus far have involved basically zero actual damage of cultural significance have driven significantly more attention (good and bad) to their cause than anything else that has been done. Their protests are non-violent and generally nondestructive.
That said, the real crime here is the judge sentencing 2 years in prison for getting some soup on the frame of a painting - I don’t support violent protests, but I’m pretty sure you could just go around and slap oil CEOs in the face for a fraction of the sentence.
Slapping oil CEOs in the face would be much more relevant, and not be targeting irreplaceable cultural artifacts.
Slapping a CEO in the face is assault. That’s a serious offense in most countries, and it would be extremely easy to get sent to jail for years.
Throwing soup at a painting that’s behind Plexiglas is, at most, disturbing the peace and vandalizing a museum’s floor.
You’re welcome to work on that plan.
irreplaceable cultural artifacts
I mean it won’t be exactly the same, but I’m pretty sure they can buy more of that plexiglass that got soup’d. Calling plexiglass a cultural artifact feels like a bit of a stretch, but I do think it’s replaceable.
Just so we’re on the same page here, would this act have been acceptable to you or unacceptable if the painting had actually been damaged?
Frame of paintings like that isn’t simply replaceable, by the way, it’s also an artifact that’s generations old. It’s just less important than the painting itself.
Do you condemn the suffragettes?
Only the ones who tried to damage priceless historical artifacts for attention?
Depends on your definition of ‘damage’ - if a drop of soup gets under the plexiglass, I’m not clutching any pearls. If the paintings were completely destroyed, I would not be supportive.
That said its a moot point because these headline grabbing demonstrations have been nondestructive. Stonehenge is fine. The sunflowers will continue to be sunflowery.
Depends on your definition of ‘damage’ - if a drop of soup gets under the plexiglass, I’m not clutching any pearls.
I would, personally, but history, human heritage, and art are all precious topics to me. You don’t damage 100+ years of history by an artist so groundbreaking that he is a household name to this day just to get your name in the papers.
If the paintings were completely destroyed, I would not be supportive.
So your primary reason for remaining supportive of this is that the security systems worked perfectly. You do not approve of destroying priceless artifacts to raise attention to climate change and/or think that it would be counterproductive, also correct?
Hot take: I swear a lot of these kinds of “protests” are funded by the oil companies themsleves to make climate activists look like crazy crackpots easy for the media and average Joe to dismiss. Like with the Stonehenge paint bullshit. Really?
I agree. I think these people are serving as “useful idiots”. They don’t know they’re being manipulated by oil interests. Ther think they are fighting the good fight. They are undoubtedly benefiting those they claim to be against.
Oil companies are manipulating these people into being against climate change?
You might be right.
Just Stop Oil states it is partially funded by the Climate Emergency Fund (CEF), founded by Aileen Getty, granddaughter of oil tycoon John Paul Getty.
Source: https://whynow.co.uk/read/who-is-funding-just-stop-oil-the-billionaires-backing-the-art-vandals
Aileen Getty is a philanthropist who inherited money and has nothing to do with the oil company. Her father and the rest of her family sold their stake when she was young. This is just a convenient conspiracy for oil companies to spread because people just fucking slurp it up without the minimum due diligence.
It wouldn’t be the strangest thing that has happened. It’s actually quite logical.
I keep thinking that these guys have to be right wing plants. Can these people really be this stupid? Doing this shit and blocking roads only makes people your enemy. Go throw paint on billionaire’s houses or at your nearest court house you idiots
Point of order, they didn’t block the road. They were up on the sign poles. The police stopped traffic.
I’m sorry, but these protests are going to far! That was a perfectly fine soup!
I 100% agree with their message, I 20% agree with their tactics.
Like, holy fucking shit, I’m not against radical protests or direct action. Take a fucking sledgehammer to someone’s sports’ car for all I give a fuck. Do it to multiple people. I mean, as long as it’s someone relevant, not just some rando. But this? Playing fucking games with human heritage? This kind of infantile shit is why museums and public galleries have to invest heavily in security measures anymore. The Mona Lisa has been damaged multiple times by people doing this kind of bullshit. And, like this, no one fucking remembers it in a few years’ time.
When this Just Stop Oil group first started getting in the news, a bunch of people were pointing out that they are funded by an oil baroness, which makes their actions seem like they are deliberately stupid and targeting irrelevant targets because they’re meant to make environmentalists look stupid and not actually trying to do anything about big oil.
I might consider more likely that the heiress is just so out of touch with ordinary people that she thinks these kinds of high-profile incidents of petty vandalism are what changes the world, instead of education, politics, green energy investment, decentralization of financial power, etc etc etc.
Not dissimilarly, but from a different root cause (ie probably not obscene wealth), would be those on Lemmy who are so out of touch with ordinary people that they think this is some sort of winning or even contributing move to changing public opinion positively.
instead of education, politics, green energy investment, decentralization of financial power, etc etc etc.
When did An Inconvenient Truth come out again? Like, can I get a temperature check on the polite and respectful progress we’ve made since then?
When did An Inconvenient Truth come out again? Like, can I get a temperature check on the polite and respectful progress we’ve made since then?
An Inconvenient Truth raised awareness at a time when there wasn’t nearly as much awareness on the issue. Hell, in '04 Climate Change was still barely even mentioned by the Dem candidate. But that part is over - the comparatively easy part, the faces and names part. Now we’re at the part where we have to actually fight for fundamental changes to get anywhere, and ‘raising awareness’ as an excuse just isn’t going to cut it.
It’s also not about ‘polite and respectful’. It’s about making structural changes to an extremely complex and interconnected system, rather than getting some nice-sounding policy pass so backpats can be had.
What did it raise awareness for? Nothing’s happened.
Just do anything as long as you don’t have to be inconvenienced. Got it.
Literally the only demand I made is “Don’t attempt to damage priceless works of art or human heritage”, but I guess that’s too much to ask for the attention-seeking brigade.
There was plexiglass in front of it. JSO has not permanently damaged anything, as far as I know. Quite the contrary, they take precautions to take care not to damage cultural artifacts. You know what doesn’t? Climate change.
For fucks sake, the suffragettes slashed paintings, and there’s more pearl clutching over some easily cleanable soup now than knives back then.
Amazing how many people want to ignore this crucial point - EVERY VALUABLE PAINTING IN A MUSEUM IS BEHIND INCH-THICK PLEXIGLAS. YOU COULD NOT POSSIBLY DAMAGE IT WITH TOMATO SOUP UNLESS YOU BROUGHT A FUCKING THERMAL DRILL.
You should go to the Olympics with the impressive mental gymnastics it required to have this be your takeaway.
What’s more important, an old painting or the people enjoying it?
“I chose to peacefully disrupt a business-as-usual system that is unjust, dishonest and murderous.”
Ah, yes, the murderous system of [checks notes] art made generations before you were born.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Stop_Oil
In April 2022, it was reported that Just Stop Oil’s primary source of funding was donations from the US-based Climate Emergency Fund.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Getty
Aileen Getty is an American heiress and activist. She is a member of the Getty family, the granddaughter of J. Paul Getty. She co-founded the Climate Emergency Fund in 2019.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Paul_Getty
Jean Paul Getty Sr. (/ˈɡɛti/; December 15, 1892 – June 6, 1976) was an American-born British petroleum industrialist who founded the Getty Oil Company in 1942 and was the patriarch of the Getty family.[1] A native of Minneapolis, he was the son of pioneer oilman George Getty. In 1957, Fortune magazine named him the wealthiest living American,[2] while the 1966 Guinness Book of Records declared him the world’s wealthiest private citizen, worth an estimated $1.2 billion (approximately $8.6 billion in 2023).[3] At the time of his death, he was worth more than $6 billion (approximately $25 billion in 2023).[4] A book published in 1996 ranked him as the 67th wealthiest American who ever lived (based on his wealth as a percentage of the concurrent gross national product).[5]
So she assuages her guilt for having a huge oil inheritance by donating some of it to encourage other people overseas to go to jail protesting other people doing what her grandfather made his money doing. Great.
What do you expect her to do instead?
Maybe she should be the one throwing the soup if that’s what she thinks need to happen?
So… you’d be okay with this action if she were the one throwing the soup? I’m super lost.
I dunno. if I was born into a family rich on something like oil, I hope I’d spend a bunch to end our dependence on it. chiefly because it’s better than not, and I’d also have the fortune to do so, and the irony of using oil money to get us post-oil like we’re Norway would be a bit of added cheek.
What should she do in her position: lay about like Bruce Wayne or try to do good like batman?
Honestly, got no problem with that. We aren’t responsible for the actions of our ancestors. The issue is whether what she’s funding is effective.
Was it actually damaged? Seems like the only damage done was to the frame.
Damage was only done to the frame on this occasion, yes. Their claim of disrupting an unjust etc etc etc system though hinges on them disrupting the system of… viewing priceless art in a public gallery.
