I’m shocked more people aren’t already better prepared for this, but it’s actually the same thing we should be doing now, and continue to do if Biden actually wins:
Organize locally. Get hyperlocal. Organize your city, neighbors, block, building, workplace, and friend group. Establish mutual aid networks, take back city councils, county boards, and school boards from the stewards of landlords and big employers.
Establish protection for those who need it, and plant the crop of future national leaders who will do the long overdue work of putting government to work for the masses. Make it harder for any president or governor to exercise state violence by getting our people in prosecutors offices and judgeships.
The Democrats are not going to save us. Biden is just planning to go down with the ship. Absolutely vote for the lesser of two evils if you live somewhere where your vote matters, but recognize that the Democratic party is not an ally to the antifascist movement, because combating fascism conflicts with the interests of capital.
That can change, but until it does, don’t put faith in them. Anything positive they do will be because power-players were replaced. And that starts in your own neighborhood.
Edit: Since this has been well received, I want to say a quick word on third parties: don’t be afraid of them.
Without getting into a lot of details, there are a lot of myths about the risks that third parties present, but before we parrot all of that, we should just acknowledge that there is no harm in listening to their platforms. It doesn’t make you a kook to hear ideas that often get suppressed by the mainstream, or to use third parties as a way to network and meet people. I think Jill Stein has a lot of useful things to say, and if a pollster asks me, I will gladly try to bump her numbers up so that she is harder to ignore. Don’t be afraid to do that.
This is good, and I’m piggybacking so I can add on:
Get a passport, make friends in another country.
Vote to slow them down, yell at anyone who tries to say that it’s better to not vote or that Trump would be better for Palestinians.
If you want to engage in electoral reform, you need to start years in advance.
If you live in Texas: Vote for Biden and encourage GOP voters to not vote for Trump. If you’re in a place with lots of GOP weirdos, try publicly and loudly watch his rallies at 1.5x speed; I’ve heard it breaks the spell b/c his cadence gets disrupted. If Texas goes blue, Biden wins and all the DNC voters suddenly know they can win, making it immediately more likely.
If all else fails, remember someone might [Comment Cannot Legally Be Finished], which would solve multiple problems.
Texas was won by fewer than 633k votes. Considering Trump’s popularity I’d say it’s ripe for flipping but we can’t lay down on the job. Also the GOP policies are pushing out liberals and people that are vulnerable (LGBTQ+ and families with LGBTQ+ kids) so the window is closing.
I believe this so strongly!!! Everywhere i go i beg people to vote. It was really only a few percentage points. We don’t even have to flip people; just get the non-voters to go to the polls.
Get a passport, make friends in another country.
Think it’s worth mentioning that U.S. politics sets the tone of politics in a lot of the west. When Trump won, the alt-right parties in more or less all of Europe grew significantly. Here in Sweden over the span of the almost 8 years since, our nazi party grew from a smaller party that the right wingers argued whether or not they should collaborate with in order to create a right-wing coalition and win majority, to the second largest party in Sweden.
Here in 2016 South Africa our online media spaces lit up like a fucking Christmas tree with all the white supremacists coming out of the woodwork to celebrate Trump’s win. Since then, the second-largest of our (so-called) “opposition” parties - a party that can pretty much be described as the party of white liberalism - has dumped any black people they had in senior positions and began using GOP-esqe dog-whistling. All our parties - pretty much the entire formal political establishment - has been very receptive to violent, USian-style anti-immigrant narratives.
So yeah… you can flee the US - but you can’t really escape US politics.
I’m not even a little bit surprised, sadly.
Last election we had here (2022) surveillance and stop and frisk were decently big talking points. Even the supposed Liberals are like “uwu so sad privacy is dying we have to be careful but
big brother needs to sees youwe nweed to be hawd on cwime!1!” I think the only party that’s not OK with it is the leftists.surveillance and stop and frisk
Lol! That reminds me… about three years ago I was notified of a “town meeting to discuss local problems” held at a local school here in middle-of-nowhere South Africa. It turns out it was just a shady PR attempt by the local branch of the “white liberal” party I described above (the so-called “Democratic Alliance”), and the suit there doesn’t talk about our decrepit and failing water, electricity and sewage infrastructure or the fact that this mining town is being economically extinguished by privatized interests… instead, the only order of business was to brag about how they had set up surveillance in our main streets and handing off the data to the piggy for free.
I feel like strangling that particular suit every damn time I lay eyes on him.
I still don’t quite get how these people make sense of the world. We recently had a big reveal that our nazi party is using “anonymous social media accounts” to try and influence popular opinion. They claim that they don’t, and that the accounts aren’t affiliated with the party, but there was a whole report on the thing and it’s landed them in some hot water. The people voting for them are pretty much unfazed but the right-block alliance overall has taken quite a hit to their public support.
One of the things these people who supposedly really love Sweden discussed, was how they could perhaps create some sort of campaign website to try and incide violence among migrants, and possibly incite terror attacks. Like, how do you reconcile your “patriotism and love for your country” with wanting people to perform terror attacks?
Were I to play devil’s advocate I’d say that it’s possible that they were just shooting the shit, but even then? Isn’t it a bit over the top? As a gay guy I’m not joking about conversion therapy or forcible sterilisations.
was how they could perhaps create some sort of campaign website to try and incide violence among migrants,
We had that exact thing here in South Africa in the late 80s and early 90s - the only difference was that it was actually enabled by the Apartheid-state through their terrorist proxies (ie, mainly the South African Police). When the anti-Apartheid groups didn’t act “terroristic” enough for their taste, they just did it themselves and used the media to create a narrative of “black-on-black violence” to try and destabilize the country.
Like, how do you reconcile your “patriotism and love for your country” with wanting people to perform terror attacks?
They “love” their countries in the same way that a rapist “loves” his victims - the feel themselves entitled to it and deserving of holding the power of life and death over it. They do not actually care about the real people living in Sweden in any way whatsoever. That’s pretty much standard fare when it comes to far right-wing ideology no matter what part of the world you find them in.
The reason they want to “incite” (so-called) “terror attacks” among migrants they see as not “white,” “Swedish” or “Nordic” enough is two-fold.
Firstly, they want the Swedish people to see these migrants the way they see them - as a (supposedly) bloodthirsty and rapacious “other.” Not much different from the way the Nazis portrayed the “Jewish-Bolshevik hordes” before and during WW2. A (supposed) “terror attack” that can be blamed on the “other” will essentially result in the media performing this function for them.
Secondly, they want an atmosphere of panic - such as existed right after 9/11 in the US. They know that such a state of things will allow their ideology to suddenly seem “relevant” in the same way that militarism suddenly became standard fare in the US afterwards.
You. I like you.
Just be careful you dont get "Boeing"ed.
Project 2025 The plan the Conservative have for our future
This is for everyone that is taking the “oh well” stance… or the I’m going to wait it out stance… If you are unfamiliar with what the Republicans plan to do, I encourage you to look at the Project 2025 plan.
Some highlights
- slash funding for the DOJ
- dismantle the FBI
- decimate environmental and climate change regulations in favor of fossil fuels
- eliminate the department of commerce
- ending the independence of multiple federal agencies
- abolish the department of education
- scientific funding would be limited to pro-conservative principles
- end abortion nationwide
- infuse government with Christianity
- criminalize pornography
- removing protections against discrimination for sexual or gender identity
- terminating diversity, equity and inclusion programs and affirmative action
- the military would be used for domestic law enforcement
- the arrest and detention of undocumented immigrants
- speedy capital punishment
Project director Paul Dans, a former Trump administration official, explained that Project 2025 is “systematically preparing to march into office and bring a new army, aligned, trained, and essentially weaponized conservatives ready to do battle against the deep state.”
So, for fucks sake, can we stop saying that we can wait out Trump for another term. There won’t be an America left if there is another term.
Good luck with criminalizing porn
Anyway it’s sickening and shocking, apparently you don’t need a coup and president assassination for the Gilead to emerge
They already blocked porn sites in a couple states
Nothing a VPN can’t solve
the problem is, when it’s illegal, and you get caught, you’ll face the consequences.
Or if you did something else wrong. VPN installed to look at porn? Well, now you did two things wrong, you must be a super special bad person. More prison time for you.
The people behind it don’t care in the slightest that you watch porn. They care to have something in hand against you in case you’re falling out of line
With the current law, I thought the onus was on the websites to verify user’s ages. Not technically banning porn, but effectively making the big names drop support. Are there any US states where porn viewing itself is criminalized?
This sounds like a perfectly reasonable plan from the perspective of a conservative. Criminalize porn so people have to take the urges out elsewhere, criminalize abortions so rape victims have to give birth, and slash social services and education funding to create the next generation of uninformed, emotionally-driven voters.
You’ll be surprised
The non-voters don’t care. The ones that actually subscribe to the ignorant narrative of single issue protesting are too stubborn to admit they’re wrong. And the rest of them are right-wing/Russian propagandists.
Basically, what you shared is what either of the aforementioned will use as a platform to bolster their effort to sell everyone on their bullshit ideology.
I think they do care, they’ve just been taught that their vote doesn’t matter. This seems to be especially true of non-white people i talk to. How can we encourage people to engage? A meme or a list of concerns is not going to change their mindset when they’ve been manipulated into generations of apathetic resistance.
No, they’re upset over a single issue every election year. They’re easily manipulated. That’s it.
This happens every four years. Like clock work. They find some hot button social issue and use it to hold our election ransom.
And also, If they thought their votes don’t matter, they wouldn’t threaten to not vote at all or vote third party if they don’t get their way. Because if their votes didn’t matter- it would be empty threats.
The people I’ve spoken with who don’t vote are mostly black or brown and aren’t withholding votes because of some issue. They’ve never voted. I invited a friend to go primary vote with me and she said, “no thanks, but you have fun with that.”
I don’t think we’re taking about the same thing.
The degree to which one person’s vote matters is a simple matter that is easily seen. There’s no room for “believing” anything.
In the USA for instance, a Presidential vote is extremely unlikely to change the election outcome. Therefore, that vote doesn’t matter very much.
The idea that voting makes a difference, for the individual, is an illusion we use to get people to vote. In the most basic, real, concrete way, which way I vote in an election does not make a difference.
That’s like saying $1 doesn’t mean anything.
Swede here, we just joined NATO and this shit terrifies me, and what is worse is that this is what people are saying publicly, how far will they go in practice?
Nah, I doubt they’ll manage what they say. Some maybe, and shit’ll suck no doubt, but there’s a lot of inertia in the bureaucracy. My real worry is what the CCP & Russia will do once they have a green light that the US won’t intervene in their expansionist ideals.
Usually they go less far in practice than their promises, because our government was designed to be gridlocked.
What am I supposed to do then. I tried voting progressive and Democrat, I tried organizing, I tried donating and fund raising, I tried at the local level.
And every step of the way the Democrats have gone out of their way to help move the goal posts to the point that my choices for a school board member we’re someone openly racist or someone who is openly sexist.
For president I get genocide or fascism… Gee really motivating me there folks.
No, for president you get a lot of genocide and fascism vs some genocide with sprinkles of humanitarian aid.
Exactly, they’re the same picture, right? /s
Not even close but that still does not mean I have a valid choice.
you get one choice that has shown he can be pressured with reason and public opinion and one that wants to commit domestic crimes with impunity, that openly wants to have his political enemies killed, and that has shown he can be pressured by Russia. You know, the country that swore to defeat the US from within.
but yeah, both sides.
I will never suggest any form of equivalency because there simply is not one. The republican party is clearly a bad actor and comparing the democrats and suggesting they are in some way an equal evil is a ludicrous fallacy.
But that does not mean that voting democrat is an imperative, nor that they become a valid choice because the “others” are invalid.
The bulk of my voting power comes from republican primaries where I can have an outsized impact on which evil will get the chance to run, but beyond that my votes count for nothing.
My point is simply that if the democrats actually cared about making a difference, they would not prop up dead candidates, they would not bend over backwards to help move the goal posts for the republicans. What they could really do is change the laws around how we vote, create automatic registration, make election days mandatory holidays with mandatory time off to vote, pass laws around campaign fiance and transparency. But they wont, because the same tools help them “win” and have power.
Just look at Trudeau, who ran on a platform of voting reform in Canada, the second he had control he dropped that promise like it was radioactive. Why voluntarily break the system that put him and his party into power… It clearly worked for them before. Same logic applies to the dem’s in the US. They wont change the system, even while its being broken, because they still think it gives them a shot at power. We dont need power, we need actual population based representation and robust protection from corporate ownership of our government.
slash funding for the DOJ dismantle the FBI
these are good.
I don’t think you can state the plan legally
sic semper tyrannus
…tyrannis
Though you might have thought of Darth Tyranus. Which is fine.
You and I both know I was thinking of Tyrannosaurus Rex, but okay.
He had the right idea.
He came and he went.
If I end up on try that jury, not guilty.
Jury nullification goes brrrrrrrrrrrrr
Tree of liberty is gettin’ mighty thirsty.
Oh man. I’m pretty non-violent, but Nov 2016, when my adult kids called me in tears, i had ideas swirling.
Keep doing what I have been doing - dragging MAGA fence sitters back from the brink one by one. The ones who have adopted Trumpism as their religion are too far gone. But there are a lot who just need to be taken by the hand and shown a better path.
When you see MAGA BS, challenge it with well-reasoned arguments. The object really isn’t to change the mind of the poster. It’s to prevent them from changing the minds of others.
Yeah, there’s a huge difference in tactics depending on whether you’re trying to comvince the person you’re arguing with, or the audience.
The latter is soo much easier - often it’s enough to back them into a corner where they out themselves as wrong whatever they say, and they’ll quickly descend into a ball of rage.
Making someone descend into a ball of rage is now how you get them off the fence.
Thats what my brother does, but he is a cis het man who works in construction as an electrician. He is very left leaning so he does try to challenge things where he can.
But I can’t do that. I am a trans woman and confrontation legitimately would put me in danger and it wouldn’t work anyways. People claim I am biased because I am in a group who is being targeted, its bullshit beyond belief but thats how people are.
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The fact that you think these things are even remotely comparable is kinda part of the problem
I was attempting to make fun of the concept that being part of a group makes you “biased”.
Can you please give an example of a well reasoned argument that’s relevant here?
I’m not sure of the relationship of reason to people that aggressively disregard objective fact and fluidly move the goalpost of their burden of proof.
I like to ask who will replace the main stream media, and how that won’t make them the new mainstream media.
IME this just leads to “yeah, but ours will be different/better!” type responses like…
“Politicians suck, but ours are good”
“Stop giving out all these services with our tax dollars but don’t touch our Medicare”
“Gay marriage shouldn’t be legal, but my gay daughter is fine.”
“Immigrants are evil, except for the waiter at my favorite Mexican restaurant, he is one of the good ones”
I/Me/Mine is ALWAYS the exception to every rule for them.
So the NEW mainstream, MY mainstream, will be different and tell the REAL truth.
Look up how to debate. Success is not measured by how bad you make the opponent look. That may work on one person, but you have to repeat it for every person who advances the same argument. Instead, take apart their argument, reveal underlying motives, expose untruths with irrefutable documentation, uncover false logic and bad assumptions, and respond without attacking the messenger.
For instance, “The economy is terrible! Everything is so expensive.” Well, stuff -is- expensive. But is the economy really the reason behind it? The US stock indexes are at record highs. Most companies have been beating the expected earnings per share. Isn’t it more likely that things are expensive because companies are taking more profit to give to their shareholders? Which candidate do you believe is more inclined to change that?
The object is not to defeat the opponent. It’s to prevent others from being convinced by their arguments.
I’m torn on this. I’m “white”-ish enough, no kids, can’t get pregnant (or anyone pregnant) and I’m in the top 10%… so would anything for me fundamentally change? No…. I could stick my head in the sand and ignore it, but that’s really not me and it freaking breaks my heart to see all the people it impacts.
So I see one of three things:
- Try to ignore it and keep voting blue and on policies to help those where i can
- go one step further and put my money where my mouth is and help run an Underground Railroad for those who need to get to blue states while they still have the rights
- flee to another country
I don’t really want to think about it, but it’s been at the back of my head.
Stick around and keep trying to improve the country despite everyone else’s best efforts to fuck it all up
This is my plan. I have to finish medical school anyways, and once I’ve done that, I’ll be in a better position to help other people.
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What have you done lately?
I’m very curious as to why you think I’m naive in some way, and why you see yourself as so much wiser than another internet stranger.
Same thing I did last time he was president. Ignore the news and spend as much time as possible in the woods on a bicycle.
Whine about my taxes going up again. Cry laugh at John Stewart. Go defend my school board
And if he gets what he wants you’ll just never return from the woods? The dude that reasons that presidents can kill opposition- literally
That’s my intention and I’ve been doing it for decades. It’s kind of president-independent action.
Al-Awlaki. The president can order the death of American citizens. The fact that we’re pretending they already haven’t is insane.
They shouldn’t be able to at all, of course, but it’s what you do with a standing army.
As much as I fear what Trump will do to the nation it probably won’t have much of an effect on me personally.
I live in a deep red state that’s already about as corrupt and authoritarian as it can be, of course that’s never really true- but it’s not like it’s being held up by anything Trump will target. The powers that be and a wide majority of the population are already fully subservient to Trump so it’ll just be business as usual here.
I’m middle-aged, own my home, no dependents, all the childhood friends I’ve had that would be vulnerable already moved away and I have a pretty small circle of family\friends and not really looking to expand. And have a good position that’s very insulated from economic and political turbulence. I’m also a cis white male and a gun-owner, I blend pretty seamlessly unless I tell people what I think about state\national politics. And I love the food and nature here. Also I kinda can’t imagine job hunting at this point at all, let alone in another state. I’d like to live in a place that better reflected my values but I don’t actually think that would help me or anyone else.
I’m established here and I don’t really have any incentive to leave. Nobody is coming for me here and me moving to a Blue state won’t help anyone there. And my accent has made people react negatively to me in the past and I’m worried I’d actually appear to be more of a fish out of water in those places than I do here, even though that’s kinda what I’ve always been here. I vote, I donate. I used to volunteer but I’m tired now. Weird that I’ve made such a comfortable home in a viper den but we make lives how and where we can.
I know it’s just my privilege to say this but no matter what happens in 2024 my life will be pretty much the same for the foreseeable future. Intellectually I worry a lot about the fate of the nation and humanity but personally I worry more about collapsing global trade and infrastructure fucking up supply chains and creating civil unrest that will effect me personally. But idk what to do about that but worry so I guess why worry…
I’m in a similar situation. I have well developed social camouflage that will keep me under the radar. I’ll just continue to keep to myself.
Try to avoid being murdered by my neighbors.
Living in a cop neighborhood is fun, no ?
Living in a neighborhood with open Trump supporters feels like sitting on a ticking time bomb.
Step one: Buy a few firearms, for different scenarios (which should be easier under Trump sigh)
Step two: Go to work, home, and limit unnecessary errands, order for delivery more.
Step three: Practice marksmanship with various firearms. I have a country, but sane, friend of the family with a shooting range on her land.
Step four: Hunker down in my deep red state, because I hold non-christian belief’s and I won’t recant them on pain of death. Not because my beliefs “protect” me, but because as an American, I believe in freedom of religion and I’ll die a proud American before I die as a Christian, my belief’s don’t matter compared to that. The protection of those belief’s does.
Buy the firearms now. Regardless of the election results, you may need them.
Also ammunition. If shit really it’s the fan it’s a very tradable resource.
Works both ways. Buy firearms in common calibers so you can stock up easily as well.
Most common for those that don’t know: 9mm & .40 for handgun, 5.56/.223 for rifle, 12ga shotgun. (These are the calibers used by police & military in case you need to ‘borrow’ ammo in an emergency)
7.62 & .308 are probably next up in rifle, then .380 for handgun…22LR is another good one to hoard.
If you have ammo you don’t need to trade with anyone.
belief’s
Why the apostrophe?
Every thing is some other thing’s thing
The same thing I did the last time he was president. Absolutely nothing.
Correct answer. People thinking murder will magically be legal are insane.
However, thinking that murder will magically be legal for a sitting President as part of his executive duties, is slightly more based in reality.
No, just no. The turnip if he whens will not magically make murder legal.
It will make murder legal for him, depending on how the Supreme Court rules on the presidential immunity case. Which they’re conspicuously refusing to do before the election.
If they ruled presidents had immunity it would literally make murder legal: Biden could legally murder Trump and only face impeachment. No criminal proceedings could be brought against him.
They’re obviously not ruling on it now. Cynically one could argue that they’re going to change the ruling depending on who wins. If Biden wins reelection then they’ll rule that presidents have legal limits. If he loses then they expand the power of the dictatorship.
That is exactly what I meant. Thanks!
Spend a solid week posting screenshots of my comments on this platform about how the DNC is digging their own grave after they inevitably blame the voters for their loss just like in 2016.
you blame people who a) voted for trump or b) didn’t vote for Biden. simple as that.
you want to blame the DNC because you voted for Trump/didn’t vote for Biden? yeah, nah.
I guess “get fucked”, realistically speaking. I can’t afford to leave on my own, my social life is empty of anyone else I can depend on, and I will almost certainly have a target on my back as a gay guy – after they’re done with trans people, we’ll probably be next.
Get a lesbian beard now would be a decent plan to consider. Just someone you can stand enough to have as a roommate.
my social life is empty of anyone else I can depend on
This is a problem that needs fixing regardless of who’s elected.
Why don’t you have a support network?
Why don’t you have a support network?
Where does one buy one of those, and how much do they cost? Asking for me. 😂
Mine cost me about $4k from an at-the-time reputable fursuit maker
Ah that’s my problem. I’m spending too much on silicone dicks and not enough on the suit.
Nah, I don’t think you spent too much. We all need to take Chances once in a while.
It does cost a lot though, gotta be careful not to Nix your wallet and Crash your economy.
And this is why I love Lemmy. :D
I think you buy them by keeping your own promises to people consistently, but I’m not sure since I haven’t done that yet.
I think you likely also have to be decently sociable, and I find socialising with people in real to be both difficult and exhausting.
The only family I have supporting me right now doesn’t want to leave the country and can’t provide meaningful support from afar, meaning I have to stay here. And staying during a second Trump term could be dangerous very quickly indeed if I’m to believe even half of the insane shit coming out of Project 2025.
other than my family, I just don’t have much luck making connections with other people, I get along better with dogs. Unfortunately, dogs don’t help pay rent. worse, if Trump wins another term, I would actually consider it dangerous to be openly gay. Not that I was getting dates anyways, but it means I probably won’t try anymore if it’s going to put me or my family at risk of harassment.
I’m just trying to enjoy every day I have with my family and try not to panic too hard, now, mostly through distracting myself with weed and videogames. I don’t know how soon things will get bad, but I don’t think we have the resources necessary to protect us from what’s coming if he wins again. We’re struggling as is – I’ve lost my job recently, I had to go through cancer this past year, I’m depressed – I don’t also need to be shit-scared of how the election plays out. Even if he loses, so much is still so fucked with our country right now.
What games do you play?
helldivers 2, mostly, as of late
I smoke weed and play video games too. Let me know if you want to game sometime
I sent you a dm with my steam ID, a week ago.
Well apparently there are no negative consequences for staging a coop.
Coup. COUP! It’s not a fucking chicken house!
He meant a co-op. A cooperative arrangement to leave the country
I don’t know, it doesn’t seem far off.
Well, as a real estate agent I staged a coop once but I still couldn’t sell it. It was a low quality flip though.
I mean do you like being woken up at 5 am every day? Because we had chickens growing up and it sucked. But with the price of eggs these days, maybe it’s a good tradeoff.
