shouldn’t the federal minimum wage apply to everyone who is doing work in the US? This seems like fraud
how would you distinguish this from regular outsourcing
Outsourcing is the problem.
The owners take advantage of our commons, tear up our roads, and succeeded because of domestic infrastructure, only to refuse to pay full price for labor and allowing even those wages, in lieu of the taxes they bribe our government to enact loopholes to dodge, to “trickle down” domestically as their always bullshit yay market capitalism talking points lied?
It’s absolutely clownshoes that outsourcing labor/manufacturing is allowed, not because of domestic shortages for a skill, but to explicitly pay pennies on the dollar for the employees you need and screw the country you don’t want to pay taxes to despite record profits even harder.
It’s insane. But we let the owner class dictate whatever they want here, and our well bribed government will even sell it for them by calling it “something something freedom” while never mentioning social consequences, accountability, or responsibility. We aren’t so much a country as a piggy bank and cudgel for the global owner class.
Borders are violence
I agree, and I’m for dismantling them.
But capitalism has to go with them. Because as it is, the owner class already enjoys a borderlees world, while manipulating those borders against everyone else.
Borders exist solely to maintain and enhance the power of a nation state’s elite. If a people allow an elite class to rise without check, borders will always be inevitable.
Something something candlemaker’s petition
For those in WTF.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/candle-makers-petition.asp
Should apply to that as well if they’re interacting with the US market. All the way through subcontractors to the end employee. No hiding behind contracting local companies.
i don’t like outsourcing either, but realistically the machine of capitalism isn’t going to allow you to be rid of it in its entirety
honestly i don’t even know if getting rid of multinational organisations is on the whole a good thing, and that’s the only way i can see of getting rid of outsourcing
Outsourcing entirely being gone isn’t realistic… But there’s a huge difference between moving an entire team of say developers to India and having a worker teleconference in to be a cashier. Anyone directly interacting with a customer or end user in any capacity should be paid the same as a local employee in the location they’re “working”.
A Telecashier is fucking stupid and ridiculous.
Remember when we learned that Amazon’s “just put it in your cart to buy” algorithm was really just a bunch of people in India watching you shop on the store surveillance system? That was, like 3 months ago maybe??
This practice is rampant across industries and only getting worse. We must demand an end to it through legislation.
$3 is loads more than the Philippines minimum wage. I think it’s $8-$10 per day.
Also, y’all are thinking of what $3 buys in the US. The purchasing power is far different. $3 buys a lot over there.
I’ll ask my wife when she gets home, but I bet $3 is equivalent to $10-$12 in the US.
Also, y’all are thinking of what $3 buys in the US. The purchasing power is far different. $3 buys a lot over there.
You misunderstand. We aren’t unaware or ignoring the purchasing power difference, that’s obvious, everyone knows currency differs. The issue is and always has been the outsourcing to increase profit in general, regardless of country or purchasing disparity. There is no reason to use a teleconferenced cashier for a retail location other than minimizing employee pay, not just by paying the minimum required here but literally taking a local job and shipping it overseas so you can instead pay what would be a clear poverty wage here, while undoubtedly having record profits like all these companies end up with.
So, there actually is a reason to do this beyond pay, but clearly pay is the actual reason they do it.
A restaurant has a set amount of staff. What happens if a few are sick and they have trouble finding someone to fill in?
A remote agent like this could be from a larger organization being contracted out and you’d never have to worry about not having someone to be available.
Edit: 1 person could even be managing multiple stores where they queue the person to assist you as it detects you approaching. Less ideal would be ‘someone will be available in 45 seconds’ type queuing.
Or they just hire enough staff to run the business in the first place. Something that used to just be how you operated a business. If the business wants to gamble on regularly operating without enough employees to cover multiple sick calls then they need to deal with the results of that decision.
Pull from other locations to cover, or God forbid, a manager actually covers a shift, or just close the location for a day if they cannot cover it. You know, what every business that operates with employees deals with.
You’re making excuses and trying to find a justification for a fucking disgraceful, greedy choice by the owner of this business.
No I’m not, you’re just jumping to conclusions. I clearly said it’s obviously about the pay.
The actual idea has potential merit like it or not. It doesn’t have to be scummy. It could be a US based corporation that pays US employees the same or more than what they’d get paid to be there in person.
The employee as I said could be managing more than 1 store, thus be providing more valuable work, and thus earning even more than they’d be earning at the restaurant, or 711, or wherever.
And they could be doing it from the comfort of their home making for a happier employee.
It just turns out that the way this has been implemented has been terrible and exploitative.
Edit: it could even be numerous ipad based kiosks around a mall where you could talk to someone and ask questions about the mall, without having to find and go to the info booth that’s in a single spot (that could also have an actual person there for those that want that). There’d always be someone available since there’d be multiple people for multiple malls all trained on each mall.
I mean, yeah probably. That’s not the point. The point is that it’s a race to the bottom for people living in higher cost-of-living places.
I really don’t care how much buying power they have over there. A fair days work here in the US should be paid in turn.
Well, if you’re gonna advocate for people, you should care what their experience is.
Okay. Imagine the purchasing power of someone who made the NYC minimum wage of $16/hr.
Maybe pay people for their time, not what the exchange rate “might” be.
If I’m paying NYC minimum wages, I’m getting someone from NYC, in NYC.
Sorry lady from the Phillipines. You’re out of a job because they put in this new “outsourcing must be at local wage rates” law.
I would just unplug the camera and computer. Every day. Even if I wasn’t buying anything.
Fuck this business.
Be sure to wear gloves.
Why?
Because a person 8000 miles away can’t wipe down anything so the place has to be dirty
Because you don’t want to leave fingerprints behind when you unplug something on camera.
Secret…agent man!
Hi
Oh sorry, I didn’t mean you, not-so-secret agent man
They use fingerprints for murder cases, not camera unplugging cases.
Also, this lady now has a job and you’re talking about ruining her job.
I want to upvote the first half of this and downvote the second half.
Boo for OP who didn’t name and shame
https://nypost.com/2024/04/09/us-news/nyc-restaurants-use-zoom-cashiers-from-philippines/
adding that she splits tips with her manager and kitchen staff at the restaurant.
They don’t even let her keep her entire tips. The whole situation is fucked. Somebody mentioned in the article also brought up a great point…
“Today, this is a Filipino woman behind a screen, controlling a POS system — but it’s not crazy to believe that probably in the next six to twelve months, this could be an AI avatar doing all the same things,” he said.
What a shitty future we have.
From the article, Sansan Chicken, Sansan Ramen, and Yaso Kitchen, all in NY. (Since nobody has said it yet)
This shit has got to be outlawed. Companies are doing this across the board. Literally skirting labor laws, outsourcing jobs that should be going to us citizens, all to just continue pouring more money into the tops pockets. When will we have all had enough?
It’s a simple enough solution in this case. They are performing the work of employees, so for all intents and purposes, they are employees. They are directly interacting with US customers at a physical location within the US. Their place of work is that physical location, even if they are not physically present. They need authorization to work in the US, and the minimum wage laws applicable to that location applies to these workers.
All that is missing is the lawsuit under existing labor laws, which they will probably lose.
Good luck finding a judge taking such a position
Judiciary is just a rubber stamp for the corporate needs. Last 40 years of court rulings speak for themselves.
Courts ain’t saving slaves
Not with this fucking compromised supreme court. Nothing was capitalized on purpose.
This feels cyberpunk. Some netrunner will hack the system and give free meals away because fuck the corpos, right?
I just wouldn’t go to that restaurant. Plenty of other places to go.
Ah yes, it’s the minorities who are stealing jobs. Not the lack of regulations blocking corpos from outsourcing work.
Good thing they build a wall so these mean immigrants are not stealing jobs.
immigrants are not stealing jobs.
I know you are being cheeky… But you are using their lingo. It is strategic as it skips the the perp ie the rent seeker looking to underpay for labour.
You know how fake teevee always got NYC migrant bussing story?
But we never hear about migrants being bussed into the heartland to work in meat packing or some other hard work.
Who is paying to bus them anyway?
Asking for a friend
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure
Oops! All Plantations now!
Guess it wasn’t much of a land for the free. Unless people start pushing back, I gotta question if it’s the home of the brave, either.
Does this mean I can give the cashier a 50 cent tip and I can get her number for laters?
I’m honestly surprised the corps haven’t done this to all of their drive-thrus.
I mean every time I go through a drive through I’m asked if I’m going to use the app to order by one person (or ai but I know about 20 years ago Wendy’s tried to put all drive through orders through a remote facility too) and when I say Nope another person actually gets on and takes the order…so they are in many aspects. Hell you can’t order in person from some of the rest stop fast food spots in Florida.
No, that is just a pre-recorded message. I once went through a mcdonald’s drive thru that had just closed. They asked me for my order and after I gave it, I realized no one was in the restaurant. I pulled around and they asked me again every time I stopped at the order point, but there was no cars in the lot.
You’re assuming McDonald’s employees are rich enough to afford cars.
This is going to be the response to “work from home”
Ok what the actual fuck?
They call it free market
Are there movements in the US or globally to force all business into worker coops? Unions are good but I think this is their ultimate limitation, that employers can just offshore their jobs
Argentina has somewhat of a history of workers seizing their factories. I think it would be extremely hard in the U.S. due to the well-funded police. Generally, I guess the movement would be “anarcho-syndicalism.”
Edit: misremembered worker factory takeovers in the past as occurring in Venezuela instead of Argentina.
They’ll send in the national guard
Forcing isn’t good.
Forcing is absolutely good. We force companies to do all kinds of things, in terms of corporate governance (publicly traded companies must have their finances audited, for example), ownership (banks used to be prevented from buying stock so that they would not avoid calling in bad debt), and how they do business (collusion between big tech to keep salaries down for example).
By that hyper-simplistic “logic” people shouldn’t be forced into prison if they murder someone.
Clearly some kinds of forcing in some situations are “good”, and if some are good but other not, that means the real discussion is all about “when is forcing right and when is it not?” something that childlike “logic” of yours doesn’t even begin to address.
Forcing to defend the lives of others, is very different from forcibly taking what belongs to others
The meme is right, the claim of belonging is complete bullshit. Your toothbrush and your home belong to you, a business involving multiple people belongs to everyone involved. The idea that it doesn’t is narcissism and evil.
Your toothbrush and your home belong to you, a business involving multiple people belongs to everyone involved.
You’re free to believe what you want, I’m personally a Lockean property rights enjoyer.
Cringe and evil
I think stealing the labor of others is evil
Why not just have a kiosk at this point
The monthly subscription to the kiosk software still costs more I bet.
Right, Corpomerica will corpomerica
Yeah it’s definitely dystopian that someone in the Philippines gets to earn a living 🙄
hope your job never gets offshored
you: “Yeah I lost my job, but hey, now someone in India gets to earn a living…can you help me prop up my cardboard box to keep the rain out? thanks.”
I agree it sucks that anyone would lose their job, but why is the default of people in the “west” having well paid, air conditioned jobs, and other people getting those jobs stealing from them.
The default is locals having the job.
Why should it remain that way?