Justin Mohn, a 32-year-old Pennsylvania man, is in police custody after allegedly murdering and decapitating his father, claiming the latter was a “federal employee” and a “traitor.” Before his arrest, Mohn posted a 14-minute video to YouTube in which he displayed his father’s severed head, proclaiming: "This is the head of Mike Mohn, a federal
my most favorite game when i find a conservative is to ask them point blank:
and they squiiiiiiirm
I like asking to play a game of who can list more politically-motivated homicides for each ideology and conservatives strangely never want to play.
Let’s be real. No one wants to play that game.
I saw a post recently - pretty sure it was in nottheonion - of a screencap of a Fox News segment, where they were interviewing someone that the caption described as an “anti-anti-fascist”.
Though to be fair, Fox News viewers aren’t likely to put two and two together. Or, for that matter, realize that an anti-anti-fascist is just a fascist.
I got it right here, old bean.
Eh that’s like asking “Are you Pro Israel or Pro Hamas, you only get to pick one”
While I’ve seen many binary choice questions that are loaded questions, I think the above is a good example. A follow up (or two) if the person balks at the question itself is the following:
Do you know what fascism is and how to spot it?
Do you think antifa is a single entity and not a general ideology?
If it’s an entity, can you name or even lookup it’s leadership?
Do you believe everyone who espouses an anti fascist value system is a member of that org?
Good binary questions can help guide a discussion and expose biases and misunderstandings held by each side in the discussion. Seemingly paradoxically, nailing down specific stances using those types of questions, you can explore the nuance of certain positions.
Ex: on abortion
Question 1 may just be a way to reframe the stances from “pro-life” / “anti-life”
Q2 helps bring the reality of what enforcement of that person’s stance may entail.
Q3 shows that big companies go unpunished for the same (or worse) violations of restrictive abortion laws and other laws that are used to punish women who miscarry.
Q4 helps bring focus on the fact that anti-abortion laws that are currently being passed and enforced are written so poorly that they are forcing doctors (through threat of imprisonment) to deny what would be routine procedures which would otherwise prevent suffering and permanent injury to women.
It’s really not, though. I am anti-Hamas and anti-Israeli government. I am pro-civilian - a group comprised mostly of Palestinians and Israelis in your thought experiment.
You see, neither Hamas nor the Israeli government have their people’s interest in mind. However, you can’t really cherry pick aspects of Fascism and anti-Fascism and say, “sEe? BoTh SiDeS!”
If the question is whether you’re pro/neutral/anti fascism, I think being anti-fascist is the only reasonable answer personally.
Anti-fascism is a political movement with a lot of political theory. Its not the same thing as saying you’re against fascism.
No, it is not. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume ignorance instead of malice. What you’re saying is literally verbatim right wing propaganda.
The only thing “anti-fascism” or even “antifa” means is “against fascism”. That’s it.
What’s the opposite of fascism?
No.
No it’s not It only is to people on the right who want that to be the case, The only theory that goes into play into being anti-fascist is thinking fascism is bad.
yeah if i was sitting in gaza. which were not.
i dont think its crazy to expect the electorate to know the definition of fascism. its also a bit hyperbolic to compare full on genocide with electing a fascist.
Tbf, particular nations elect fascists, said nations commit genocide.
Did you fall asleep in history class or something? How do you think genocides happen?
What I’m saying is that if you are asking a question that pigeonholes people into two categories sometimes they pick the worst one out of spite. It’s not really am indicator of what that person believes. Kinda like saying if you don’t support BLM you’re a racist, and guess what happened? A bunch of people started saying “well I guess I’m a racist now”
They were always racists. They just decided it was okay to admit it.
“Whoopsie I got caught guess I’ll quit hiding it.”
The reason I brought up the Palestine Israel example was because it was a real question in a survey (NYT I think?), more that 50% of the people under 30 responded they support Hamas and under 20 years old it was as high as 70%. By your logic, all of these people are terrorist, and always have been.
Please show how that is my logic. Do those people all call themselves racists?
No, they call themselves pro Hamas. At least in that survey, but I doubt they actually believe it, more likely they picked that answered because they were pigeonholed.
What at all does that have to do with being a fascist or an anti-fascist? A shitty survey asking people which of two awful groups of people they prefer is not at all the same as asking what one’s opinion on fascism is.
Fascism is very clearly defined. There is no pigeonholing here, there is no third option being left off the table like there was in that survey. You’re either in favor of fascism, actively by supporting it or passively by not resisting it, or you are anti-fascist and resisting the rise of fascism to the best of your abilities. There is no in-between.
What does that have to do with your spurious claim that people call themselves racists out of spite and not because they’re racists?
No it’s not the same. A better equivalent would be are you racist or anti-racist. Are you pro or anti rape. Are you pro or anti slavery.
Facism is defined as a violently oppressive form of government. It shouldn’t be a hard question if you’re not a piece of shit
Nope. Israeli citizens are not all bombing Palestinians, and Palestinians are not all Hamas.
You’re so close to getting it
Are you saying antifa is equivalent to Hamas?
Worst made up genocidal criminal thieving country
the two are not logically exclusive. a correct comparison is
“are you Pro-Isreal, or Anti-Israel” and “are you Pro-Hamas or Anti-Hamas”.
You are also so close to getting it.
And you, clearly, are in another postal code entirely.
“are you a fascist or are you an anti-fascist?” is exclusionary, you can only be one. You cant both be fascist and anti-fascist, nor can it be 1 and not 1, they are logically exclusionary.
“is the number of gumballs odd, or not odd” “you are so close to getting it” “yea… that’s not an answer”
"“Are you Pro Israel or Pro Hamas” is not, and proposing that as an example shows a complete lack of understanding on basic syllogism.
NVM, just saw you said this multiple times to everyone who raised a point you cant refute.
Easy choice.
I would answer anti-fascist, but if someone asked me “Are you communist or anti-communist? Pick one” I would answer “neither”
Compulsory alliance is sort of a core feature of fascism so you really must be either fascist or anti-fascist.
If fascist government is in power, it will creat a system in which non-partisan participation furthers and advances the fascist state, so one cannot “opt out”. Since a fascist system won’t entertain neutral, the question “Are you fascist or anti-fascist? You can only pick one.” Is not inherently disingenuous.
Communism does not force people into supporting it, there “neither” is an acceptable answer to “Are you communist or anti-communist” in a way that cannot be applied to fascism.
Well, Communism doesn’t force participation as long as you don’t ask the tankiis, but fuck the tankies.
A great point well made.
If you live in a Communist state you won’t exactly have any way to “opt out” of it any more than you can just “opt out” of paying taxes.
That’s true for a culturally conservative Russian state that claims to be “communist” the way North Korea claims to be “democratic”.
The USSR sucked ass because it was made of the same kind of Russians that we’re still fighting against today. The label they wear as a disguise, communist, capitalist, kleptocracy, or whatever “the commies” are calling themselves these days is irrelevant.
Like I said, Fuck the tankies.
Leftist political theory can get very complex, and when people say communism they can mean a lot of things.
Technically, Communism as per Karl Marx in the Communist Manifesto, Communism isn’t a government. Communism is a state of anarchy in which people naturally share resources and the means of production communally and provide ownership does not exist as a cultural concept. So going by the original definitions “Communist Government” is an oxymoron. Explaining what the hell happened in Russia is a whole conversation.
When people talk about communism or communist elements in a government, they are probably talking about some form of socialism.
The same is true of the UK monarchy, yet plenty of Brits are neither for nor against it.
I’m not familiar with the British Monarchy so I can’t really comment on how appropriate your framing is.
What I can point out is that your statement is logically inconsistent on its face.
One can’t be neutral towards a fascist state because the fascist state won’t allow one neutral. In such a condition, anyone who claims to be neither for fascism or actively anti-fascism is pro-fascism because the condition of fascist power will direct all the labour and efforts of participants to the support of the fascist state. In such a condition, pro-fascist is the default condition, and anti-fascism can only be achieved through conscious effort and educated and effective praxis. There is no neutrality. One is not neutral in the face of fascism simply because one declares to be so.
So, if the same conditions essential to fascism are true of the British Monarchy, then the nature of the political situation is stopping Brits from being neither for or against Monarchy. If your assumption that fascism is like the British Monarchy is true, then one could only be pro-monarchy, or achieve anti-monarchy through conscious and intentional effort.
You are not making any distinction between those who would want a fascist state to endure and those who would be indifferent to replacing it with something else. But I think that distinction gets to the heart of the question.
You are also assuming that fascists and anti-fascists are only concerned about their own condition. Suppose you asked an American their opinion of Mussolini and they responded “He was terrible”. That’s clearly anti-fascist. But what if they responded “Never heard of him”? That’s neither pro or anti fascist, yet the neutral response won’t advance a fascist regime.
You could pick either. There’s no problem with having communist ideologies or being for capitalism.
There is a problem with fascism, it’s not comparable to communism. A closer example would be asking someone if they are a racist or not.
We should be taking a hard line at certain ideologies and anyone that hesitate is suspect imo.
Racist or anti-racist, really. Many people can answer “I’m not racist, but…(insert racist statement)”
I’m not racist, but sourdough is the best bread for a grilled cheese.
I’m not racist, but have you tried substituting mayonnaise instead of butter on your grilled cheese sandwiches? It levels then up nicely.
The point is that “neither” indicates someone who does not agree with an ideology but also does not see it as a threat.
You are of course free to treat that person accordingly.
It’s an equivocation trick. Not all anti-fascists are associated with the movement that calls itself antifa.
Are you pro-life or anti-life? You only get to pick one.
Fuck outta here with this nonsense. Stop trying to score points and try to have conversations with people.
Antifa isn’t a movement, it’s a label.
There’s no organization, no overarching political goal - it’s literally just a term for people opposing facism through word or action.
There’s organizations that use that label in their name (like antifa of XYZ), but there’s no movement to associate with - fox news made that the fuck up
Take this example “antifa blocks off campaign event”. Fox news reports it as “members of a group called antifa has…”
A more accurate description would be “a group of people describing themselves as anti facists has…”
When people take on the term, they’re not describing their alignement to a movement - they’re describing their motivation
All the conversations have already been had, this is just prelude to war