The Biden administration has reportedly abandoned its plans to ban menthol cigarettes after warnings that it could push away some Black voters. The Wall Street Journal reported on Friday the White …
Honestly, we see where banning things gets us. Millions of people in prison and or killed over these things because there’s black markets for them because people want them.
Even if you do that you risk creating a black market that will be served by organised crime. In Australia it’s an issue where tobacco shops get firebombed, and that’s with just expensive cigarettes, not outright bans.
Here in Canada, we have a loophole in the law where indigenous have the right to use tobacco without taxation due to tradition. Which is totally fair - but it also applies to modern mass produced cigarettes for some reason.
As a result of ever increasing taxes on tobacco, I would reckon that at this point 80% of cigarettes smoked in my community have been smuggled off of a reserve. The black market is booming with “Rez smokes” selling for $5-10 a pack while legal cigs go for ~$30.
The federal government recently introduced a regulation mandating a health warning printed on every cigarette. Most agree it’s a transparent attempt for the police to spot an illegal smoke in your hand, as Rez smokes don’t have warnings on them. They are losing a ton of revenue to the black market, and are trying to crack down with heavy fines for even possessing a pack off of a reserve.
Just criminalize the sale, not the possession. When they vanish from storefronts and become much harder to find, many people will switch to alternatives like vapes, or reduce their consumption. Don’t bother with citing individuals for possessing them; Just fine the fuck out of any storefronts caught selling them, and/or take their tobacco sale permits away.
That would fuel a black market even more because now customers don’t need to take any risk so more profit for those who do take the risk on the selling side.
And if they just do fines, it will become a cost of business. If they lock people up, then it’s just another front in the ridiculous drug war that does more harm on its own than the drugs themselves do.
As much as I don’t like smoking still being a thing, use is trending down on its own and people should have a right to choose what they do with their bodies, even if it fucks them up or they end up regretting it later. As a society, we’ve been fucking up our environment more than smoking ever has to the point where just existing in a large city is as bad as smoking because of the car exhaust, and that’s for everyone, not just those who choose to drive or ride in cars.
Though I would be in favour of mandating that some majority portion of cigarette profits go to paying for the health treatments and would also be open to some kind of asterisk on healthcare coverage for those who live in places with public healthcare and choose to smoke, maybe requiring some kind of insurance policy to help pay for healthcare they might end up needing.
It depends on the size of the store, but that isn’t necessarily true. A lot of convenience stores are franchises, and you definitely could talk to the owner.
My point isn’t really to define what a store is, but rather to point out that it is really tricky to place blame appropriately when you are banning a substance that people want to buy. How far down the chain do you prosecute?
Much better to simply teach people the truth about their health and let them make their own decisions rather than try to control and blame, in my opinion.
Fair enough, I generally think prosecution is a bad idea if it can be at all avoided because then taxpayers have to pay for that person to be prosecuted in court and if they end up guilty have to keep them in jail and I don’t agree with that if it can be avoided.
Honestly, we see where banning things gets us. Millions of people in prison and or killed over these things because there’s black markets for them because people want them.
Or y’know ban the sale and don’t criminalise it?
Funny how a lot of countries are starting to crack down on cigarettes and the health issues they pose without mass locking people up.
Even if you do that you risk creating a black market that will be served by organised crime. In Australia it’s an issue where tobacco shops get firebombed, and that’s with just expensive cigarettes, not outright bans.
Here in Canada, we have a loophole in the law where indigenous have the right to use tobacco without taxation due to tradition. Which is totally fair - but it also applies to modern mass produced cigarettes for some reason.
As a result of ever increasing taxes on tobacco, I would reckon that at this point 80% of cigarettes smoked in my community have been smuggled off of a reserve. The black market is booming with “Rez smokes” selling for $5-10 a pack while legal cigs go for ~$30.
The federal government recently introduced a regulation mandating a health warning printed on every cigarette. Most agree it’s a transparent attempt for the police to spot an illegal smoke in your hand, as Rez smokes don’t have warnings on them. They are losing a ton of revenue to the black market, and are trying to crack down with heavy fines for even possessing a pack off of a reserve.
I definitely agree with taxing cigarettes more, but if you get to the stage where organised crime starts doing arbitrage, you’ve gone too far.
But then you’re hurting the corpos bottom line. And thats the one real law.
The system is working as intended, support ticket closed.
Joe biden loves the police state and would like to see it expanded… again.
SO DAMN TRUE!
Just criminalize the sale, not the possession. When they vanish from storefronts and become much harder to find, many people will switch to alternatives like vapes, or reduce their consumption. Don’t bother with citing individuals for possessing them; Just fine the fuck out of any storefronts caught selling them, and/or take their tobacco sale permits away.
That would fuel a black market even more because now customers don’t need to take any risk so more profit for those who do take the risk on the selling side.
And if they just do fines, it will become a cost of business. If they lock people up, then it’s just another front in the ridiculous drug war that does more harm on its own than the drugs themselves do.
As much as I don’t like smoking still being a thing, use is trending down on its own and people should have a right to choose what they do with their bodies, even if it fucks them up or they end up regretting it later. As a society, we’ve been fucking up our environment more than smoking ever has to the point where just existing in a large city is as bad as smoking because of the car exhaust, and that’s for everyone, not just those who choose to drive or ride in cars.
Though I would be in favour of mandating that some majority portion of cigarette profits go to paying for the health treatments and would also be open to some kind of asterisk on healthcare coverage for those who live in places with public healthcare and choose to smoke, maybe requiring some kind of insurance policy to help pay for healthcare they might end up needing.
I would agree, except do not criminalize individuals selling to other individuals, but if it’s stores then I completely agree.
What do you think a store is, exactly?
I consider a store to be more of a corporation because of the fact that I can’t go up and talk to the individual who runs the thing in most cases.
It depends on the size of the store, but that isn’t necessarily true. A lot of convenience stores are franchises, and you definitely could talk to the owner.
My point isn’t really to define what a store is, but rather to point out that it is really tricky to place blame appropriately when you are banning a substance that people want to buy. How far down the chain do you prosecute?
Much better to simply teach people the truth about their health and let them make their own decisions rather than try to control and blame, in my opinion.
Fair enough, I generally think prosecution is a bad idea if it can be at all avoided because then taxpayers have to pay for that person to be prosecuted in court and if they end up guilty have to keep them in jail and I don’t agree with that if it can be avoided.