cross-posted from: https://lemmit.online/post/1011094
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The original was posted on /r/aboringdystopia by /u/bisexualbestfriend on 2023-10-04 15:06:06.
These posters make me want to organize.
It tells me that they think paying for graphics, ads etc are just a fraction of what I can gain.
Removed by mod
I suspect that’s why it’s hanging right above the fingerprint/face scanner punchcard kiosk.
Email the IWW, they’ll give you manuals.
Part of a union already UC system. They helped us get additional sick hours and pay during COVID. Plus additional time off.
Expanding the connections of the labor movement is never a bad thing. You never know when you’ll need help from a steel workers union, teamsters, etc.
Never forget: If a company doesn’t want you to have it, it’s probably a good for you.
It really is that simple.
Most companies don’t want you to drink cyanide, but it isn’t good for you. Most companies don’t want you getting hurt on the job. Most companies don’t want you drinking or doing drugs while using heavy equipment. All these things arent good for you.
I’m not saying to unionize or not, but the logic is fallacious.
My union got me more money in a single year than I will pay in dues for my entire career in at least 3 separate years in the 6 years I’ve been working for my employer.
I get leave each year that is slightly more than 20 percent of my work hours.
Unions are amazing for workers.
It’s amazing how anti union the US is. Unionise everything unless you want to be bent over and fucked by the long dick of capitalism.
My family is from West Virginia. They literally had battles for unions. Unions saved the state for a little while. Everyone I know there is also very anti-union. I don’t know how. This is why history is important, but they won’t teach you these parts of history in school.
That’s not true at all, you’re clearly not in the US if you think that. It’s also not true that open shops all get fucked. Don’t be ignorant. I got a handful of buddies that work for open shops that get paid more than I do, and have better benefits. I get some perks they don’t clearly, but even with that figured out by the math, some of them do better. All comes down to the company behind it and whether they’re smart enough to give a shit and realize their working are important, or whether they’re shitbags and need a leash on them.
Thankfully I’m not in the US, you are correct.
You may know people who are paid more than a union equivalent, that’s the choice of the company. But a union will always help the little guy as has been shown time and time again throughout the world.
Employers paying above and beyond is not the norm, it’s not even the minority. It’s a scarcity. To say what you said above like you shouldn’t unionise because everyone isn’t a cunt, is a very poor view given to you and now you’re propagating their misinformation.
Employers paying above and beyond is not the norm, it’s not even the minority. It’s a scarcity.
No, its not. That may be the case in your country, but not this one. Unions here are way more about benefits and better working conditions as a whole, some companies pay more, some less. Union jobs here aren’t a guarantee of more money. The profession to top rate is steady, which is good, but theirs open shops here that start people out at higher than other companies top out rates.
Understand that what you know in your country doesnt apply everywhere.
To say what you said above like you shouldn’t unionise because everyone isn’t a cunt, is a very poor view given to you and now you’re propagating their misinformation.
At no point did I say that. Why would I tell somebody not to Unioinize? Dont put words in my mouth.
The fact they are putting these up should let you know it’s something you want to join
Agree. I don’t understand why Amazon thinks this will help, like “hello people, Union is a thing that we’re really afraid of, haven’t you heard?”
People are so used to getting gaslit by megacorps, they just eat that shit up unquestioned
Because they want to plant that seed of doubt and fear.
Might not work for you, but unfortunately there are a lot of naive or insecure folks out there.
I do feel like this is smart. The first two points are whatever but the third one “typically you must go through union instead of your supervisor or manager” makes it sound like there is a lot of bureaucratic overhead to it. People who are undecided could feel that it’s too much effort.
If you can think critically, sure. But large amounts of the population are dumb as bricks and will believe this literally just because it’s on a poster.
Don’t trust unions - they can’t guarantee you benefits. Trust us, we guarantee the most exploitative conditions as long as you don’t organise!
That sarcasm is incredably subtle. Those on reddit tricked/paid to promote that sentiment would include your first sentence almost verbatim.
Don’t trust unions - they can’t guarantee you benefits.
Divided you beg. United you bargain.
Absolutely true, godspeed my friend
Assuming thats a response to me since this app sucks and its hard to tell, its true. Pension funds go to shit and get “borrowed” out of all the time. I like the benefits I get, but I’m not brainwashed either. Its not all positives.
Oops, you replied to the wrong post. Whatever client your on, you can switch to a diffrent one easly. Hopefully it makes your life a little easier.
Exactly, and it sucks for that exact reason!
What?
Fucking autocorrect…
Well, they can’t. Let’s be real. That’s a bad angle to argue from. LONG list of all the positives and truths, but don’t use that one unless you very easily want to get shut down and look foolish. I left my last 2 jobs because of the corporate end going stupid and pensions being iffy, both of them have since filed for bankruptcy.
How is this even legal? As a European I can’t understand how anyone falls for this blatant anti-union propaganda. They are obviously beneficial to workers (that’s literally why they exist) and I’ve never had to run anything by my union unless I believe I’m being unfairly treated by my employer.
Yes, from a European point of view this is something straight out of a bad comedy sketch. If unions would be bad for workers, why the hell would anyone want to advertise against them?
Over the last 11 years since I moved into my current role, my salary has risen by approximately £35k. In addition to this my conditions have improved and I work fewer hours. My yearly negotiated increase has always outstripped inflation and I have only lost one day’s pay due to strike action to achieve these rises.
The company I work for continues to post profits in the billions of £s, despite paying their workers fairly.
I’d say my monthly union dues of <£20 have served me pretty well.
Anyone advocating against a union either stands to lose out by unionisation (ie those at the top that would rather keep their bonuses/salaries as high as possible) or have completely bought in to the capitalist nonsense that is often thrown around about unions.
or have completely bought in to the capitalist nonsense that is often thrown around about unions.
Don’t start that anti-capitalist bullshit. You can’t be happy about making more money, then bash capitalism. Can’t have your cake and eat it too pal!
In a capitalist society, people need money to survive. Capitalists want to hoard all the money for themselves while the poor do all the hard work for as little pay as possible. Unions aim to fix that problem.
There is no inherent contradiction between wanting a liveable wage for your work and criticizing capitalism at the same time.I wasn’t bashing capitalism at all. My comment was directed at the fact that it is often (quite ridiculously) suggested that unionisation and its pursuit to protect workers rights and improve pay and conditions lead to the downfall of businesses. It’s an obvious weapon to try and disuade employees from joining a union by leading them to believe that they might lose their job completely when the union forces them out of business.
It’s pretty obvious that capitalism has its flaws but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the alternatives usually don’t fair well. I don’t disagree with the ideology but I do believe that I am entitled to my fair share, after all, my bills are rising like everyone else’s. Why should my colleagues and I lose out so that a few at the top can fatten their pockets? They don’t pay me anymore than they need to - they compensate my colleagues and I sufficiently to make us do the job. If they pay less, I’ll look elsewhere and they know this by agreeing to the demands of my union.
Because in many cases they can be. Really depends on your industry, and the Union you’re in. Some are the only way the job is tolerable, sometimes they hold workers back, many times unintentionally but still happens. I’m in trucking, for us, we’re WAY better off with Unions behind us because trucking has VERY outdated regulations and many employers exploit that likes it’s tax code loopholes.
I’m in a right to work state, so people don’t have to join the Union if they don’t want to, you’d be amazed at how many don’t! Many of the ones who don’t are the people in the boomer years who have years of gripes against the Unions, people that spends decades as union workers. I’ve heard a lot of shit, it’s not all bullshit. There’s +/-. Only ignorant people claim otherwise.
Free speech I suppose.
Illegal would be then telling them they cannot unionize, or they’ll face repercussions.
Politics. Most conservatives are anti-union and pro-business in the US.
I work in a “right to work” state, which means you aren’t compelled to pay union dues, even if you directly benefit from one. This is specifically to undermine the power of unions which are overwhelmingly supportive of Democrats. Wooing union support is critical for them (see: Joe Biden in Michigan recently).
It literally is that simple.
It’s legal because we have free speech in this country. The company can post anything they like as long as it doesn’t meet the definition of Union busting, which (is) illegal. We don’t need to go to our Unions either, just more stupidity.
We have free speech in Europe too. Anyway, I originally thought the poster was hanging above a voting booth, but I see now it seems to be some kind of computer for staff to clock in and out of work. Still shitty but not quite as dystopian as I thought.
europe has just sneakier anti-labor laws. Neoliberals are de-regulating everything anyway.
Tf are you on?
Nordic states are having more far right victories resulting in ‘deregulation’. The same in Germany and France. Do I have to remind you the next ruling party of germany will most likely be an extreme right party?
Obligatory, “if a company is trying to convince you you don’t need a union, you need a union”.
Unions are like condoms, in that regard.
“Oh no, I’ll have to go through someone who actually has my interests at heart and not my shitty manager! Damn unions!”
And no, you don’t have to go through the union instead of your supervisor/manager. In my union job, they’d send a witness/advocate along with someone if they had an issue where a manager was involved.
The union was corrupt, but despite that it was still the best factory job I’ve worked in (ok another one was also not bad but that was mostly because no one really gave a fuck about the stupid shit there and everyone just did their jobs without fucking with each other). The pay was high enough that when I was looking for something better, I realized a certification I had started wasn’t going to mean more money, just different work for similar money.
Yea. I had a shop steward sit in on all my meetings with management. They represent the union, it’s influence, and it’s contract. They make sure everyone is playing by the rules and management doesn’t take advantage of an employee that doesn’t know labor laws, policies and procedures, their work contract, or the union contract.
It wasn’t a requirement for meeting with management, but it was something a manager could not refuse if requested by the employee. Any meeting with management would be delayed until a shop steward was available.
I was a strong advocate for every employee to have one with all meetings with management.
Yeah, Amazon is trying to present it as extra red tape everyone will have to deal with, but it’s really the union will help you get through the company’s red tape. The union’s red tape is more about its own power structure, which will have the usual problems that go along with any kind of power, but the union still serves to balance the employer’s power.
Exactly. Also, if you ever hear saying “you won’t have a say, the union speaks FOR you” (yes I’ve seen this framing before) you can always respond that you ARE the union! That’s the entire point is that everyone in the union IS the union, it’s right there in the word.
It’s not a guarantee they have your interests and heart, but your odds are a lot better than your supervisor having your interests and heart.
Your supervisor has a duty to put the good of the company ahead of the good of the employee or they’re risking their own jobs.
Why don’t people understand this simple fact ?
interests and heart
Yeah, I hate it when my supervisor steals my vital organs.
It’s not a guarantee they have your interests and heart
No, but it’s at least in their job description to act accordingly.
That’s why I advise anyone who has anything important happening to them to first seek advise from an organization that deals with worker rights, a union or a lawyer, as HR are there to protect the company, not to help you.
If they help you, it’s only because that’s what’s beneficial to the company and their personal allegiances in the company.
The amount of effort your company goes into dissuading you from starting a Union, is proportional to how much you need one.
They have only one argument, and it’s pathetic and not even true. Dues without guarantee. lol
It doesn’t matter what their argument is, Amazon workers are probably smart enough to realize any anti-union advertising is because unions are good for workers and bad for Amazon.
I can’t believe imagine there’s a single Amazon worker who thinks Amazon has their best interest at heart or would spend money to save their employees money.
I guess those managers who fight the workers do believe that Amazon has their best interest at heart.
Believe it. I’m sure a factor in where Amazon locates its facilities is union presence and support, along with cost of living and education level. That is to say, lower income areas with an undereducated population and strong anti-labor politics. Obviously not possible in every region but a lot of the US is like a whole other world when you travel just outside the city.
At my FC, I would say 50% at best would even consider the question. MAGA/Trump support runs deep there. Nobody likes the company, yet they will happily take its side over their coworkers…
Reasons not to join union:
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No guarantee that they will help at all mitigating our blatant exploitation of the workforce
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Uh, it is un-american.
The un-american argument always makes me laugh. Ah yes, Unions bad, good thing I live in the U.S.A where Unions aren’t a thing. no siree, you won’t find a single Union here, that’s for sure!
Correct! They’re un-american in this union of states…
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The creepy part is how you’re supposed to turn in anyone who discusses unions or unionizing.
They literally tell you “if you hear someone discussing something against the company’s best interests, say something!”
How’s it not illegal?
Because Amazon can afford lawyers, and people who work for Amazon can’t…
It’s only illegal if the person you hurt is rich enough to sue you…
Ding ding ding, it is absolutely illegal. If I’m not mistaken the existence of the posters at all is illegal, not just certain parts. But the labor boards won’t go after them since they are one of the biggest employers in the country for now. Believe me, that won’t last. In the next few years they will have the packing centers 100% automated and eliminate the majority of the 950,000 jobs they “provide”.
Exactly what I mean. It’s illegal, but to them it’s not because they’re so rich that, apparently, they’re now above the law…
murica
They used to send the actual military to shoot at people attempting to unionize.
Crazy that they are using the same tactics to hinder unionizing that they used a hundred years ago.
Straight lies. How can you tell someone that unions cannot guarantee anything?
Sure a union technically can not guarantee anything. But I’ll guarantee you’ll be in a million times stronger position with a union.
They’re also spreading this nonsense at my hospital where we’re actively organizing right now. It preys on people’s ignorance of how legal contracts work.
Your lease doesn’t guarantee that your landlord won’t violate its terms either. But it does give you the ammunition to take them to court and win compensation, if they do.
The same applies to a union contact. It’s legally binding in the same way. Sure the company technically can violate the terms of that agreement. But the union is going to escalate the issue to the NLRB and/or sue them in court, if they do. And you will win, if you provide the evidence that they violated the legally binding contract.
This is what disingenuous corporations call “not guaranteed”
I think what they’re trying to say is that being in a union, by itself doesn’t guarantee higher wages or better benefits. Which is true, but incredibly misleading since you sure as hell aren’t getting those wage/benefit increases without union membership.
“You can’t guarantee that your new collective bargaining agreement will be honored by us.”
Unions literally cannot guarantee you money, dude. Other than what’s in their coffers, and what is “drawn up” in advance, collected for, and spelled out in a written agreement.
Especially fragile new unions, they don’t have jack shit going for them. The company isn’t going to help it form, and they might choose to fire dissenters attempting to unionize. During a strike or demonstrations, even with a formed union, the company isn’t going to pay the workers for not working. In this way, the company is correct in saying “there are no guarantees of pay”. Hell if they don’t like you there’s no guarantee of a job at all, if there’s no established union.
It’s all talk, speculation until a formed union draws up a legal, enforceable contract that both company & union agree to. CBA, as it’s called (Collective Bargaining Agreement).
It’s the company who has to sign off on the CBA, too.
A union can ASK for things, but it’s always the company guaranteeing it.
If conditions were left up to corporations children would still be working, we’d be doing 12 hours a day 6 days a week and Charles Dickens a Christmas Carol would be an autobiography on the current bestsellers list.
Corporations are interested in making profits, paying shareholders, managers getting their bonuses, workers are don’t make the top 10.
Never forget when Amazon called the guy who organized a strike “inarticulate” even though his speaking talent was literal poetry.
For those of you unaware, that was a dogwhistle. The strike leader was black.
