cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/36828107

ID: WookieeMark @EvilGenXer posted:

"OK so look, Capitalism is right wing.

Period.

If you are pro-capitalism, you are Right Wing.

There is no pro-capitalist Left. That’s a polite fiction in the US that no one can afford any longer as the ecosystem is actually collapsing around us."

  • Tlacuachito@slrpnk.net
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    3 days ago

    This isn’t changing people’s minds about crapitalism. Amerikkkans will keep calling liberals, “the left,” and liberals will keep loving crapitalism. This only shows how right wing Amerikkka is as a country. Liberals would much rather be forced to identify as right wing than as anti-crapitalist. These distinctions only bother the keft as we get conflated with liberals constantly. Nobody else gives a shit.

    • ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      3 days ago

      The number of defensive whining from libs in the replies to the OP beg to differ lol, they clearly very much do give a shit. So you keep slapping them in the face with reality until they can’t hide from it anymore, and they have to make a choice, pick a side, and be comfortable with their own decision, and the consequences it brings (including *shock horror*, being called what they choose to be - right wingers and fascism enablers, meanwhile the rest of us have the consequences of said fascism to face).

      Leftists coddling liberal feeling is just as productive (E: to progress) as liberals coddling fascist feelings, that is to say - it isn’t, at all. We’re long past the point of prioritising privileged feelings over marginalised lives.

      • Quadhammer@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        How will communism fix anything? I have never seen addressed the fact that psychopaths want to rule

        • daltotron@lemmy.ml
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          15 hours ago

          A lot of ink gets spilled around this kind of bullshit, when most of communism is focused more directly around anti-capitalism and economic theory.

          Effectively, the preventative mechanism against authoritarianism is just democracy, but extended towards parts of the economy which, under capitalism, are conventionally privatized, and thus, are kind of ruled in an authoritarian, “meritocratic” manner. Then this authoritarian capitalism infiltrates and rules the public, democratic portions of society, as we’ve literally just seen right now with the kind of, explicitly corporate-backed trump administration. I mean, as we’ve been seeing for maybe the last 80 or so years, right, in a slow ramp up. Which isn’t to say the US really had much of a democracy to begin with, it was sort of, designed from the inception to be more of an kind of joint-corporate state ruled by landowners, so in a roundabout way we are actually making america just as it was at inception. You could maybe contrast this situation of authoritarian capitalism with co-operative corporations, which sort of exist at various levels of democratic ownership, and exist to mixed success in a capitalist market context. Or union activity, maybe.

          More specifically and directly to answer your question, you’d probably wanna use a Condorcet method, I’m partial to the Schulze method, and you’d maybe wanna set up certain factions of the economy to be voted on by those with domain-specific knowledge so as to not be overly politicized, weaponized, or met with undue interference by other portions of society. You want your railroad guys to be in control of the railroads, basically, rather than having to frame everything for the perhaps relatively uninformed general public. You want to avoid just using the public as a kind of rubber stamp where their approval of your program is contingent on how well you’ve phrased your proposal, because it just sort of meaninglessly increases costs for no reason. You want engagement to be legitimate rather than taken advantage of by cynical forces. Hopefully, by breaking up these specific sections of society, and giving them agency over their specific domain and nothing else, you can prevent a massive overly centralized and thus more authoritarian hierarchy from arising.

          The other criticisms, say, of democracy itself, socialism doesn’t quite do as well with. Say, with majoritarian rule slowly shrinking over time, or, the lines and borders that you draw up around particular domains creating a kind of insular and exclusive self-interest of a given class. Which conflicts explicitly with the previous idea, right, of splitting the economy into more and more factions so you can have each of them operate in their domain more efficiently. These would sort of be, more anarchist criticisms of socialism. Communism is sort of, depending on who you ask, some theoretical end state of all this which puts all of these questions out of mind, where everything is as flat as possible.

          Realistically, these all tend to be kind of overblown as criticisms anyways, and the much bigger problems stem from the real world circumstances of trying to establish a communist state in a global capitalist hegemony, which is an inherently isolating, hostile, and cruel context. It’s hard to do effective democracy in such a context, for the same reason that it’s hard to have democracy on a pirate ship when you’re getting shot full of holes, while, in other times, the ship would actually be ruled democratically.

        • ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 day ago

          I have never seen addressed…

          Because you’ve never actually looked in good faith and without your glaring bias.

        • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 day ago

          it doesn’t. Communism hasn’t even had a good white paper written about it. Just some random eastern european schizo writing about the rich people or whatever.

    • Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 days ago

      Calling liberals and progressives pro-capitalist is less true than calling self-proclaimed leftists tankies.

      The tankies are the ones making shit up and painting liberals as the bad guys and the tankie movement will remain a joke for as long as that continues.

      At least libertarians had the balls to go try libertarianism, sure it results in bears but tankies will never try because it’s a victim mentality.

      • Tlacuachito@slrpnk.net
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        1 day ago

        This is the dumbest shit I have ever read. My brain hurts and I almost feel bad for you, but that would require way more emotional labor than this reply is worth. I would honestly be fine with it if tankies would purge the liberals.

        • Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 day ago

          I would honestly be fine with it if tankies would purge the liberals.

          Thank you for proving my point. Liberals aren’t trying to purge anyone. Seems like the main distinction between them and every other ideology.

      • Quadhammer@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        The anti liberal stuff seems the same kinda brainrot trumpers have. Or as i like to call it The Dead Brain Sickness