I really hate trans health care. It’s just health care. If they ain’t hurting anyone, leave them alone. Jesus.
We don’t trust people under 21 with alcohol that affects them for a few hours. Letting kids make life altering decisions is irresponsible.
You are right we don’t trust kids. That is why doctors are involved.
Yeah, but I trust their doctors and their recommendations.
If they ain’t hurting anyone
See, that’s the sticky point that people keep trying to ignore in favour of screaming BIGOT as loudly as they can every time someone raises concerns about it.
Wut?
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the number of transitioned people who were harmed by the process is significantly less than the people who feel it improved their life significantly. there are failures across all medical procedures, you don’t see people denying appendectomies to people because a few people died? get over yourself and let people live their best life
We’re talking about kids here. Kids brains aren’t fully developed yet. That’s why we don’t let them drive, drink, smoke, or consent to sex. If they want a sex change, just let them do it when they become an adult
If they want a sex change, just let them do it when they become an adult
That’s already how it works. You’re angry at a thing that doesn’t exist and that nobody is suggesting.
I’m not angry at all and it does exist
Yes, that’s correct. They need puberty blockers, so they can make the decision when their old enough instead of having that decision forced upon them.
This regurgitated propaganda brought to you by the same minds who fabricated “partial birth abortions”.
That’s why we don’t let them drive, drink, smoke, or consent to sex.
You were never a teenager, were you?
What kind of question is that?
Well, that’s because they’re generally blatantly lying about it.
Have any decent sources on that regret or harm done that aren’t debunked by myriad other reputable sources? Scientists research all kinds of unpopular things, so it should be easy to show.
I’ve seen plenty of them get interviewed. Anyone saying they don’t exist just aren’t being honest with you
At risk of getting myself banned (I guess a litmus test for myself to see how zealous the mods are here), one of the pioneering studies done in the field ended in suicide.
The thing is, this story you mention isn’t a situation of trans health care; this is a situation of actual child abuse. The parents literally forced a gender identity onto their child who seems to have otherwise been cisgender. It’s not all that different from what conservative parents will often do with their actual trans children.
If anything, this story shows the harms that come by denying gender-affirming care to children. That child was not a girl, and denying him of his identity caused irreparable damage. All because the parents were too scared to tell their child that the doctor fucked up the circumcision.
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An experiment was performed on an unknowing child by raising him as a girl, following his botched circumcision, with disastrous results.
How is this relevant to the issue of transgender health care? Sounds like a pretty good study of why infant circumcision is bad but it doesn’t seem like an example of trans health care causing harm.
This is not a pioneering study done in the field, jfc. This isn’t a transgender story, this is a story of abuse. Did you read the article? Did you do any research into this at all? Did you at least read his biography? Because I have. To summarize: David was born a cisgendered man whose doctors botched his circumcision so badly he needed reconstructive surgery. His parents consulted a sexologist they saw on TV (the now disgraced John Money), and he convinced the parents to give David a sex change. Not for David’s benefit mind you, but because the sexologist wanted to make a name for himself based on his theories on gender being easily malleable (and he briefly did, until the truth came out). A lot of gross messed up stuff happened, like the sexologist would make David roleplay sex with his twin brother I shit you not. He would make them watch hetero porn with him. And then he would make them get into sexual positions and make them playact sex together. He also took photos (and I think video) of these two children simulating sex.
So to summarize real quick, the pedo-sexologist who committed acts of psychological, medical and sexual abuse on these children, is your “pioneering study” guy. Let me guess, you thought that John Money was a success and that he proved his theory that gender identity is easily manipulated? I’ve seen this exact anti-trans disinformation twist before, along with thinking David was trans (he wasn’t) and pointing out David’s “trans suicide”. You should be more suspicious of your sources for information. By the 90s we already knew John Moneys work with David was useless. And the disinfo machine loves to leave out a very important fact: Davids brother Brian killed himself two years before David took his own life. I guess the suicide of the depressed cisgendered brother who never transitioned muddies the trans-suicide agenda being pushed.
Whenever I see his story pop up, the terfs (and the unfortunately misinformed) end up erroneously thinking this is a story of a trans kid who killed themself. Disinfo will say this story proves that you can manipulate someone into believing they’re a different gender then they know themselves to be. And look! Disinfo swears theres reputable science papers by John Money to back this up! ha.
David was a straight, cisgendered man. His story is not a transgender story. It’s many other things; a story of child abuse, medical abuse, psychological abuse and sexual abuse. It’s the a story of a cisgendered person experiencing gender dysphoria and not understanding why. To me, what his story really shows us is that a persons personal sense of gender is an innate and pervasive thing; a complex combination of mind and body that persists; no matter how much abuse you throw at it. Because even though David was raised to believe he was a woman; had his role as a woman constantly being reinforced by his entire world, had everyone in his life telling him he was a woman, he still knew he was a man and deeply struggled to understand why he felt that way.
further reading/citations:
the 1997 medical paper & review of Moneys work that, along with Davids testimony, began to shed light on this: http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1997-sex-reassignment.html
Davids biography: As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised As A Girl by John Colapinto
a more detailed and damning article from 2017: https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/david-reimer-and-john-money-gender-reassignment-controversy-johnjoan-case
a very disturbing amount of detail of what happened for those that can handle it: https://www.simplypsychology.org/david-reimer.html
and finally wikipedia for those that hate fancy links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money#Sex_reassignment_of_David_Reimer
there are plenty of articles about regrets and resources about detransition, those who get shouted down usually try to use ridiculously low regret rates as reasoning to limit access to healthcare. marriage has a 43% regret rate, why isn’t your energy spent there instead?
No one is ignoring it. The problem is that the bigots who are rightfully called bigots think they’re doctors and that people should listen to their medical advice rather than their doctor’s medical advice.
I assume you don’t have a medical degree, but please correct me on that.
I kind of get it, but maybe I also don’t fully understand what trans health care for kids is all about. (I’m not against it btw)
You can’t get a tattoo before you’re 18 because that’s (somewhat) permanent. Does trans care interfere with puberty in a way that’s irreversible?
I also realize what I just typed is probably comparing apples to oranges… maybe the people passing these laws are thinking the kids will grow up and change their minds - does that actually happen? (I doubt it, but just asking because I don’t know.)
Kids under 18 aren’t legally able to start hormone therapy or get surgery. The most they can get is puberty blockers and therapy. Ppl who complain about Trans kids changing their mind are full of shit. Everything a minor receives as Trans health care is reasonable, safe, and reversible
Puberty itself is full of irreversible changes. Having puberty blockers available to trans youth is important to prevent their bodies from making changes they don’t want, and is reversible later.
That’s what I was wondering too and maybe there needs to be more information on what exactly trans care for kids is all about. I honestly have no clue.
Maybe that’s a good reason why this shouldn’t be a political issue but a medical one decided by experts in the field instead of politicians with influence from the general public.
No reasoning should be necessary to keep government/politicians/anyone else out of people’s private lives - including (and ESPECIALLY) health care decisions.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Yes, it absolutely happens. That’s one reason they’re passing laws to stop it
Conservatism needs to be extinguished wholesale. There is no such thing as a “good conservative” alive today. They are cancer.
imagine what you could do if you were a president with total immunity for your “official” acts.
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So most of these bills ban pretty much all medical interventions for anyone under 18. Puberty blockers, hormone replacement therapy, surgery, the whole nine. Some go further and are trying to ban it for anyone under 26. You could theoretically still get counseling but you wouldn’t be able to actually do anything.
And yeah sure, on its face that might seem reasonable. Wouldn’t want impulsive teens rushing into big irreversible medical changes on a whim right? But those safeguards already exist. You can’t just walk into a gender clinic as a 10 year old boy, say the magic words “I’m actually a girl,” and walk out with an appointment for bottom surgery and a prescription for titty skittles. It takes long term counseling, social transition steps like trying out a new name and pronouns, wearing clothing that aligns with your gender, etc.
In reality that hypothetical 10 year old boy walking into the clinic is going to get extensive counseling. From that counseling he might try out using a different name, she/her pronouns, or dressing in more feminine clothing. She then might get prescribed puberty blockers here to make sure she has time to do all of this and be sure of herself without being forced into male puberty. A few years go by and last statistics I saw something like 2% of people at this point say, “No I think I actually am a boy,” and they go through that slightly delayed puberty. But almost all progress to HRT and later surgery.
Do some people later truly regret their transitions and try to go back? Of course they do. But realistically, transition already has basically the lowest regret rate of any medical procedure out there. A higher percentage of people regret getting something like a hip or knee replacement surgery than regret transition.
Puberty already forces your body through permanent changes that can range from easy, to nearly impossible to reverse. That’s why puberty blockers are so important. Imagine if as a young cis boy through some rare medical issue you start going through female puberty. But you’re a boy! You know you are. You’ve got a penis and everything.
But now you’re growing breasts. Like big enough that you can’t really hide them. Big enough that they get in the way, they’re heavy, and you have to wear a bra otherwise they hurt like hell. The other boys in your grade stare at you or bully you because you’re a boy but you’ve got bigger tits than a lot of the girls in your grade. Soon everyone starts mistaking you for a girl. Guys start hitting on you even though you’re a guy and you’re attracted to girls. A lot of the girls aren’t interested in you because they’re attracted to more… Traditional looking guys. You get told that you should just accept it. After all you look just like a girl. But you’re not a girl damnit. You’re a boy. This wasn’t supposed to happen. Now imagine they tell you they can’t do anything about it until you turn 18… Or maybe 26. Sounds terrible right?
I think something a lot of people don’t realize is that transitioning is not the end of the story. You still have to live in the same exact shitty world, with all the same hate, all the same bigotry, all the hostility. And if your post-op presentation doesn’t pass the stringent “do you look cis enough” high standards of society? Welp, your life is now on extra hard mode. All the people you know that are already transphobic will probably still be just as transphobic after you transition, if not worse. People de-transition for a lot of reasons but I wouldn’t be surprised if the main reason is the pressure to present as either their pre-transitioned selves or to present as a perfect ideal of gender that no one can clock.
My understanding is the majority of detransition occurs due to financial reasons. So basically “I can’t afford my HRT anymore,” or “I can’t afford top surgery right now so I’ll go back to presenting as a woman,” or what have you. Then once the financial issue is gone a lot of those resume transition.
Full on “I thought I was trans but I’m actually not” detransition seems to be pretty rare. Almost like the current standard of care does a pretty good job at weeding out the people for whom transition isn’t the best treatment option. But to the conservatives who’ve decided this is their new culture war front if literally a single person ever regrets their transition, that’s enough to ban it for everyone.
That’s such a good point, you’re not free from the financial burdens post-op. I’m just a freshly cracked egg so I’m still learning. I was going off of the convos I’ve had about the post-op life with friends and strangers in trans forums. A lot of the discussions around de-transitioning focused on the pressure to “be the person we knew” from people in their lives and also the pressure to reach a nigh impossible ideal of gender from society in general.
I would not blame anyone for going back into the closet because they can’t take the constant abuse. It’s really sad that they feel the need to do that, but I do not blame them at all. This society we live in is horrible to so many people.
FUCK OFF
TRANSPHOBESTerf Island: we already fucked off so hard we aren’t even in the EU anymore. That’s the maximum amount of fuck off we can manage
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