I honestly cannot see how the Arab world’s arm can be further twisted. Israel is the one doing the ethnic cleansing, if anything it’s their arm that needs to be twisted.

You were talking about Ukraine and Russia. That’s two neighbours. My comparison is reasonable.

This is raising the bar to a ridiculous and silly level. Are you seriously going to argue for …Algerians, Indonesians and Afghanis being threats? Their immediate neighbours to the south, west and east have normalized relations and are squarely within the Atlantic system. The Saudis and the Gulf states are almost there, too (had it not been for October 7th, this would have already happened). As the Syrians are basically a failed state, the only ones that are left are quite literally the Lebanese and the Palestinians. The influence of Iran hinges precisely on the legitimate grievances of these peoples. Address those, and you got peace. But you don’t have the Greater Israel of the Israeli far right’s wet dreams.

I’m obviously talking about the Palestinians and the Lebanese, duh. And as far as defeat, yes they have defeated also the Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians, and a few others.

So you’re basically saying here is an impossible standard. And then are sad that your impossible standard is not meant.

Say openly what you think is a resolution here buddy. Come on, don’t be shy.

The Arabs have already been soundly defeated and occupied. Multiple times.

Yet it’s the only way to peace. Germany and France put their faith into each others’ guarantees after WW2 and created the EU. Peace is possible.

That sounds like a reasonable comparison, until one realizes that we are not talking about WMDs here, we are talking about the occupied Palestinian territories. Then, your comparison not only falls apart, but is also exposed as a bad faith one.

First, if Israel giving up the territories is similar to Ukraine giving up its WMDs, i.e., an existential threat, then Israel should never do that. I.e., peace is impossible and the two state solution is impossible. The only option left is … ethnic cleansing and genocide. Is that what you are arguing for?? Be clear about what you say. Because I don’t think you are arguing for the dismantling of the apartheid regime in all of greater Israel: one state from the river to the sea with equal rights for everyone.

Second, Israel actually has WMDs and would be keeping them after the establishment of a Palestinian state. So, if anything it would be in a stronger position than Ukraine, heaving the guarantee from its neighbours and its own WMDs to fall back to.

Third, you are comparing Israel to Ukraine. This casts Israel as the victim, the one that is subjected to occupation and violation of its integrity. The opposite is true. Israel is the occupier, the oppressor and the violator international law.

So, no, your comment doesn’t stand to scrutiny.

noun: failed state; plural noun: failed states a state whose political or economic system has become so weak that the government is no longer in control.

You might be thinking “morally failed” instead?

Which is exactly why Germany should make a sustained, honest and deep commitment to make Germany a sanctuary for Jews (and Roma people by the way), and a place where Jews would be guaranteed safety. Instead of outsourcing its responsibility to a country in some faraway war-torn region, Germany should establish a right of refuge in Germany for any person of Jewish decent anywhere in the world.

If they made a law saying that to become a German citizen, one must assume the historical burden of the Holocaust and wholeheartedly take on this historic debt to Jews (and other impacted peoples, again let’s not forget the Roma people), nobody would bat an eyelid.

Frankly this goes more generally to insane statements like the ones made by US President Biden that Israel is the safest country in the world for Jews. Motherfuckers, there is literally nothing stopping you from making your own countries safe for Jews. If I were the chancellor of Germany I would be PROUD for Germany to be SAFER for Jews than Israel.

First off, like @[email protected] points out, Israel’s actions have been far from helpful to begin with.

Second, let’s be completely honest here, the rockets from Hamas and to an extent the rockets from Hezbollah: they are Israel’s problem. I don’t see why my Greek-Canadian ass needs to be solving the problems created by Israel when it completely killed off the Oslo accords. Israel has all the power here. It’s Israel that has been colonizing and besieging the Palestinians. It’s Israel that has been building illegal settlements on illegally occupied land. It’s Israel that was occupying Souther Lebanon for 20 years, etc. In the last decades, unequivocally, they are the aggressors. When Hamas did the October 7th atrocities, I really don’t get why the Israelis were surprised. Gazans have lived in a city-wide concentration camp for 20 years. Any young adult participating in the October 7th atrocities has never experienced anything else in their whole lives. Is it really surprising that some significant percentage of such a people would resort to this kind of utter atrocity? Norman Finkelstein has made a great parallel with the Nat Turner rebellion in the US, when slaves rebelled and did unspeakable crimes to whites, and the abolitionists at the time were right to just say “well, what the fuck did you expect?”.

Third, fuck yes, it’s easy to say. Israel itself in its own history has shown what it is capable. If instead of prepping terrorist attacks with pagers they had been spending their time doing to Haniyeh what they did to Eichmann, kidnap him, then bring him in Israel and give him a fair trial, I would be applauding them, I would be saluting them. When I say that Israel has gone rabid and needs to be deradicalized, I draw exactly this parallel. The generation of Israelis that were the perpetrators of the 1948 Nakba (so, not a bunch of boy scouts) had the moral spine to put Eichmann on the stand, give him an Israeli lawyer who defended him in good faith, and to give him a fair trial. Those bastards, they did that noble act. These petty criminals of today? Bah!

And fourth, if there is any good journalist out there, they should ask the Jordanian minister what he means by “guarantee”. Would an pan-Arab peacekeeping force be deployed in the hot spots to maintain the terms of the deal? It is almost certain that an independent Palestine would immediately fall into some kind of civil war, just like the newly independent Ireland. Is the minister saying for example that they would be willing to fight that war on behalf of the moderate Palestinians? Don’t ask me, ask him.

Where is “here” for your buddy?

Egypt and Jordan have both normalized relations with Israel. They are absolutely not threats.

Syria and Lebanon are failed states. The threats to Israel come from non state actors within them. Such actors can only be truly neutralized by (a) capturing and trying the leadership -rather than making them martyrs by extra judicial killings, and (b) by removing their legitimacy, i.e., by ending Israel’s illegal occupation and colonization of the West Bank, and by letting Gaza breathe. Basically, these non state actors can only be defeated politically at this point.

That said, it is clear that Israel has gone rabid. The rest of the world at this point is more worried about the safety of its neighbours from it. There is no credible actual threat to Israel any more. But there is a credible genocide and ethnic cleansing going on under/by Israeli arms. The Israeli far right (that is part of the government) contains powerful elements that are already planning the colonization of Gaza and Southern Lebanon. Internally, even dissenting Jewish Israelis are facing repercussions for not towing the extreme nationalist line. The settlers are the strongest political force in the country. Etc etc. Israel needs to be deradicalized. There need to be limits placed and there need to be consequences

Ultimately we need nothing less than the complete and blind application of international law. If that is too radical for Americans or Israelis, too bad.

“you see, after I beat you to a pulp, I stopped beating you to a pulp, so that means I’m peaceful”

Nakba denialism is cringe.

Here you go: https://maps.app.goo.gl/M4uFig4YF5PL8Zp56

Edit: the line between “it happened organically through urban growth” and “was put there on purpose” is the line between “I like them” and “I don’t like them”. Like who you like but don’t expect everyone to buy into your narrative.

Is Israel still ethnically cleansing Palestine?

The IDF HQ is in central Tel Aviv.

Hell, forget the ME, the Greek army HQ is next to a metro station. The Canadian Army HQ is in central Ottawa. Indian army HQ in downtown New Delhi.

This is not the own that the “human shields” narrative for Lebanon wants it to be.

Saudi clown prince.

They have meant people not being killed, so I dunno, that’s something?