IF the elections are rigged by the MIC to wrap fait accompli into a cohesive and digestable narrative, the surrender of Ukraine is one of those things that might have required Trump at the helm for it to be believable. He’s anti-China and anti-Arab so he can just as easily maintain the existing war drives, but he’s also the cover necessary to let Ukraine fall and continue the hollowing out of Europe.
I don’t think they’re rigged. But if they were…
I’m willing to try one more time with you.
Oh how gracious! Thank you!
Your point was that after electing Trump, the only thing that changes is “rhetoric, the only thing that matters to some people”, and I disagreed by citing examples of how our rights were rolled back during his previous term. This means I am saying, “you’re wrong - it’s not just rhetoric that changes. It’s also our rights as Americans.”
Yeah, I’m aware. And as it turns out ALL of the things you can cite for Trump are ALSO things you can cite for NOT TRUMP, as I did by citing examples of how our rights are rolled back, attacked, diminished, and destroyed under prior administrations including Biden’s.
This means I am saying “our rights” are constantly being harmed regardless of who is in office and that the only thing that changes is the framing and lens, which includes the rhetoric as well as the particular strategies of harm that result in harm being targeted in specific ways. It’s not less harm under Democrats, it’s not less harm under NOT TRUMP, it’s just different framing.
I understand that you’re severely critical of the Democratic party
If that’s your understanding, then you’re not understanding. I’m severely critical of the entire American project along its entire continuum of existence and absolutely every single leader that has ever been elected. I’ll take that one step further so you understand how far off you are - I denounce the entirety of the colonial system that gave birth to and is continued by the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the rest of the British Commonwealth abroad, and the foreign holdings of all European countries, their leaders, their parties-in-power, their owning classes, and their supporting militaries, academies, religious institutions, and NGOs.
Do you get it now?
but are you really willing to say that the only measurable change to our society during a second Trump term is rhetoric? It’s going to get a lot of people killed, man. You should care about that.
I CHALLENGE you to attempt to catalog the number of people who died as a result of each administration for the last 20 administrations and see if you can find ANY evidence that who is president matters at all along that dimension. Clinton bombed Yugoslavia. Bush destroyed Iraq. Obama destroyed Libya. The Afghanistan affair spanned 20 fucking year. Ukraine is the direct result of the US arming and training Ukraine and expanding nuclear NATO as part of a project that started under Clinton. Trump literally was the first president to approve arms transfers to Ukraine as part of the escalation ladder that led to Biden overseeing the continued expansion of NATO. But it was under Obama that John McCain ® and Victoria Nuland (?D?) went to Ukraine to participate in the violent transfer of power that started with training and organizing fascists and ended with Right Sector storming the capitol with gun drawn.
And that’s to say nothing of the non-stop destruction of water, land, and food of the indigenous people across the Americas, the residential schools that were overseen by both parties over many decades, the forced sterilization overseen by both parties over many decades, the incarceration and ensnaring-in-poverty of the black population overseen by both parties over many decades.
I won’t get pulled into the weeds with you. Either backpedal or admit that you were wrong, or I’m leaving the conversation.
What the fuck kind of discourse do you think this is where what I want is to continue a conversation with someone who thinks they are fundamentally correct without doubt and simultaneously believes their engagement is so desirable that withdrawing it is an effective gambit.
Fuck off
The job of the party and the candidate is to win. They failed. It is not the voters job to cause the party to win, it is the party’s job to cause the voters to vote.
The Democrat campaign had a billion fucking dollars
OP said “America will disappear” and that they will “weep” over it. I said America disappearing is a good thing.
Shitty bait is shitty.
An unimpeded conservative government will roll back human rights that took us decades to earn.
Sounds like a fundamentally broken and unfixable system if the work of literal generations for things that are internationally recognized as correct can be undone in a couple of years.
Trump elected supreme court officials necessary to defeat roe v wade
The Ds had multiple opportunities to address this. They punted on all of them, from making nominations to rejecting nominations to expanding the court. They chose exactly none of these options over the last 12 years.
He put the people in power capable of rolling those rights back.
No he didn’t. Congress did.
Women’s rights is just the beginning. Every member of American society will have their basic human rights threatened during this term.
They all have been already. Did you forget McCarthyism? How about the black felon rate? The black incarceration rate? The national incarceration rate? Slave labor? (California voted overwhelmingly to maintain prison slave labor) How about disparate health outcomes for non-whites? Educational outcomes? Wealth outcomes? Homelessness?
Every member of American society has had their basic human rights threatened for the last 200 years except for that still quite small group of white people.
Why on God’s green fucking earth would you think that only the rhetoric is different? Please answer this question and do not skip it.
Because the Kamala literally said the only difference between her and Biden would be that she would appoint a Republican to her cabinet? Because Pelosi said we want a strong Republican party? Because the Ds have done literally nothing to stop this so-called “threat to democracy”? Because under Biden solitary confinement of migrants, including infants and toddlers, increased? Because Kamala told migrants “Don’t come”? Because military surplus being transferred to domestic police continued unabated under Biden? Because the foreign policy continues to be destruction and devastation and nuclear brinksmanship regardless of party in charge? Because there are no solutions to the economic crises that protect the ideology of privatization? Because the Ds have had multiple opportunities in the last 40 years to codify Roe into law and chose not to so they could continue campaigning on the issue? Because the Ds will tell you to your face that the Rs are rabid fascist authoritarians and then still go to lunch with them, high five them on the legislative floor, and have dance parties? Because the Ds and Rs come together on the regular to feed the war machine and the money machine, even to the point of bypassing the filibuster temporarily during the exact same session where the Ds said they can do nothing about the filibuster?
Because all of the fucking evidence is that literally the only difference is the lens you’re looking through and where and how the harm falls and how it sounds when it falls?
Love the NATO ass kissing when Trump was threatening to leave NATO previously
Oh if this is going to dissolve the USA then that’s good
Oh the genocide was absolutely a function of the republic qua republic. Elected representatives dealt with “the Indian problem” in various ways that garnered votes.
But democracy and the voting process brought us Trump! It brought us genocide, it brought us child separation, it brought us the CIA, it brought us children in solitary confinement, it brought us the police force, it brought us Vietnam, it brought us nuking Japanese civilians, it brought us indigenous genocide, it brought us Flint, it brought us the highest rate of incarceration in the world over the last century.
What does destroying US democracy and US voting actually, materially, change?
I think that’s actually going to be pretty difficult. It would be a true triumph of counterintelligence to pull that off.
I think it might get partitioned like Germany did. It would help the Western narrative engine to draw those parallels and it would allow the West to continue operating and building power while requiring Russia’s constant attention.
Russia cannot occupy Ukraine and is unlikely to physically invade and occupy Kyiv directly. It is also unlikely that Russia will spend the resources to do to Ukraine what the US did to Korea.
Everyone except the European power structure IS imagining it. Literally it’s the stated reason for Korea developing nukes - so that it can pursue everything else without the West choosing to bomb it back to the stone age for second time.
Sounds like a 2-year-long rope-a-dope
LOL. A perfectly reasonable post and the only thing you can respond with is an ableist ad hominem. Good luck navigating the world around you !
I dunno. Highly motivated, highly incentivized, backed by the most productive nations on the planet. I think those of us in the West are used to tranformative things taking forever because of the incompetence and the lack of incentives for the powers that be, and we forget how quickly our nations do transform things to harm us - DMCA, domestic surveillance, sharing intelligence, privatizing water, destroying habitats, etc.
The US is constantly repeating propaganda domestically and abroad all day every day. The least the UN can do is remain consistent in countering the narrative.
It always was
Respect is when you promise to walk away if your discursive partner refuses to accept your faulty premises.