My memory was that we knew this at the time?

I was just stirring the pot, and I love this response

Fewer*

Oop, and you need to have the last word too, checking that off the bingo card

Edited to add: they just couldn’t help themselves

“Loser” still fits nicely in that caricature.

Um actually

I am not a Nazi, but you are a caricature of an internet argument

Ah yes, calling a stranger a Nazi on the Internet. A compelling point

I don’t want to sound like a contrarian, but I’m struggling to figure out how this relates to the previous comments.

I will say, as much as I am being argued with for saying that the history of Germany’s history with Israel is complex, and the history of Zionism is complex, no one is really responding in a way that doesn’t sound like the Charlie Day red string board meme.

When I look at the current state of Israel and Palestine, I see a lot of people backed into corners. Netanyahu knows that if he loses power, he’ll be arrested for corruption, so will do anything to support his base, who are the worst of the Zionists this thread is about, so he only has an incentive to continue butchering Palestinians.

I see the US not wanting a nuclear armed Israel to feel that they are out of defensive options against their neighboring countries, and as such feels a need to keep supplying weapons and intelligence so that Israel is only, merely, butchering Palestinians, instead of something worse.

I see the Palestinians being sacrificed, which is causing some of them to need to fight back, so they’re radicalized, and join Hezbollah.

And I see the rest of the region wanting to punish Israel for their heinous actions.

And looking at this as a US citizen, my experience is that the people who want to make it look like the solution to solving this is easy, are also usually trying to get you to vote for Jill Stein, and I’m not convinced that it isn’t an astro-turfed movement to push for spoiler votes to get Trump in office.

I would like it if we could say the situation is nuanced, and then talk about the nuance, rather than scream that it’s cut and dry

I think you’re conflating being Jewish with Judaism. His religious beliefs aren’t really what’s in question here, @[email protected]’s comment sums the idea up well. Herzl was, with no ambiguity, a member of the Jewish community.

So, your argument that it’s not complicated is that Israel was founded by antisemitic Jews? I’m not even saying that you’re factually wrong, but you keep insisting that this isn’t complicated. It is complicated, and the more you insist that it’s simple, while giving increasing amounts of fine details is not particularly convincing

You see, many of the original Zionists were Jewish, it’s literally not so cut and dry.

Everything is black and white, gray is for apologists, then?

Well, Germany does have some history there

Who are you calling an amateur, buddy? I can argue you under the table!

I guess 2000 was long enough ago to forget

There’s been a lot of shoddy journalism about Israel/Gaza from all narratives and I feel like this has been testing the media literacy of a lot of progressives, but uh… CNN is not a fringe source. This banning feels bad.

If the dems ever sweep the house and senate, I hope they pass legislation

I mean, it’s pulling from MBFC and ground news, which are not both owned by Dave Van Zandt, and he doesn’t work alone. Also, when compared to other fact checking organizations, MBFC performs well, from what I’ve read. Well enough that if you find their output uncomfortable, you should be second guessing yourself.

It’s not really a bot’s opinion though? It’s reporting on salon in general, and letting you know that the reporting has a bias, which means generally, it might promote parts of the story that show Vance in a bad light compared to other reporting, and the. The Ground News link shows that reporting on this topic across several sources tends to be pretty non biased and factual. That’s all good information to have, and saying otherwise means you want to let yourself be misled.

And everything other than joining the topic and the source is written by humans who are trying to keep people informed.