BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]

Quick what year is it??? Is it 2006 again? It feels like the worst time travel experiment ever

>religion, all religion, is bad actually

No clue. I thought this kind of dumb reductive nu atheist “religion is the cause of all evil” had kind of died out when they morphed into acolytes of the Jungian fascism of Peterson

Its not that complicated. Saying Judaism is genocidal is just like saying Islam is a religion of war. Its rascist.

I mean, you just did it again.

that got me too! Libs are masters at unintentionally doubling down on rascist ideas

The main problem i have with this entire train of thought is that it’s completely untethered from anything material and is therefore fundamentally wrong no matter what conclusions you’re trying to draw. Well actually my main problem is that you’re using this thinking to make (whether intentional or not) an anti-semtic conclusion which makes it way worse. But I’m going to focus on the first thing, because that’s where i think where you’re making a common mistake and stumbling into antisemitism.

Religion is a part of culture. Culture is an outgrowth of the base of society/system. The system itself is driven by material reality. Culture can work to reinforce and strengthen the system, in fact that’s the main point of it, but it doesn’t dictate the actions of the system. Colonialism, imperialism, genocide aren’t caused by religion, anymore than they could be caused by a movie or a song.

This relationship is also why religions are malleable. Religions change and peoples relationship to them changes because they are in a subservient relationship to material drivers. The easiest thing to look at is the period of religious upheaval in Christianity coinciding with the emergence of capitalism (Protestant Reformation, 30 years War, English Civil War, development of Calvanism, etc.) - and the need for theology to either adapt to be compatible or become discarded.

The kind logic you’re using is predicated on idealism the belief that ideas are the primary driver behind reality and actions. That applied to religion is the MO of nu athiest pseudointellectuals like Golden Girls fortune heir Sam Harris. He’s known for making your exact same arguement but in an Islamophobic way - the target being Muslims and not Jews.

It’s hard to understand how you don’t get that saying Judaism is genocidal is incredibly antisemitic. But a lot of people repeated Harris’s bullshit and claimed they weren’t Islamophobic by hiding behind one hadith or another as proof that Muslims are evil. Some may not have understood. Harris may not have even really understand how rascist he is because is exceptionally stupid. So you might not mean it. If you don’t want people to call you antisemitic you need to do a little self-criticism and examine what you really think and want to say here.

Welcome to the reddit nu atheist pile on. I was not expecting antisemitic Sam Harris to be a thing, but here it is

Religious people aren’t inherently genocidal. Their religion is.

is this nuance?

I will say though, this is a great Sam Harris impression. Antisemitic Sam Harris is actually an interesting bit

you’re mischaracterizing my nuanced views!!!

Straight up Sam Harris grade bullshit except directed at Judaism. All his beliefs just the opposite target lol

Yeah there’s a big difference between believing im secularism and wanting the liberation of people from religious oppression and hating religious people, as well as blaming religion (or bronze age morality) for things caused by modern colonialism and imperialism.

You don’t have to be athiest to espouse cringe ass nu athiest thought. #1 the idealist delusion that religion and thought dictates actions and reality and not the other way around.

The genocide is not caused by religion or “bronze age morality” any more than genicide is caused by individual rascist thoughts or beliefs. Isreal is a settler-colonial project and an extension of US imperialism. That’s what is driving the genocide, not bronze age morality.

This pure idealist Sam Harris-style Islamophobia logic turned toward Judaism. You’re wrong for the same reason he’s wrong about Islam.

what happens when you put bronze age morals in practice

Is this 2006? I thought Nu Atheism was over lol. You must be the last holdout for that cringe ass, warmed over racist bullshit

Everyone arguing with you is anti-zionist. We want Isreal as it exists to end. If you care about the injustice and genocide of that fascist settler-colonial state, then I don’t get why you want to die on the hill of an antisemitic position

You’re really pretending you can’t see the trope you’ve tripled down on? Its ZOG. Its the one way to criticize Isreal that actually is antisemitic

It’s the anti-Zionist Liberal interpretation, excusing the Empire for the deeds its Vassal commits.

Nailed it. They need to excuse the US and they get to do it in a racist way. Liberal win-win

Smol bean US being controlled by their own vassal that couldn’t exist without their support. This is really deep analysis. You are a very deep thinker.

Exactly. Im a stickler on this point because I’ve had to go through conversations with left leaning jewish friends who still have some lingering brainworms. It matters to understand what is actual antisemitism. The zionist will not act in good faith - so it’s even more important for us to understand the difference

You think your antisemtic trope is analysis?

Isn’t that an Israeli talking point tho, that any criticism of them is anti-semitic, equating any criticism of the zionist project as anti-semitic?

No. What I’m saying is that specifically believing the US is controlled by Isreal - that the US is subordinate to Isreal - that is an antisemitic belief (on top of being ridiculous). That’s not an isreali talking point. Believing that is not helping combat zionism - it helps it.

I’m anti-zionist. That’s why its very important to me to point out this antisemitic belief because its detrimental to the cause of anti-zionism.

I love Stalin’s writings style. That’s a great breakdown. Dialectic and Historical Materislism is the best explanation of those concepts.