Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy welcomed the move, which he said paid tribute to victims of the Soviet-era famine. It follows a similar move by the European Union last year.
I’m not doubting you, but when you say “most historians” what do you mean? I have basically no knowledge of this subject, but I’d like to know more and I know better than to take some random comment at face value.
It’s been a while since I read about this, so I don’t have any sources on hand I can point to right now. The core point is that there isn’t really any proof that the Soviets’ goal was to eliminate Ukrainians as a group, which is the main requirement to classify something as a genocide.
Of course, that doesn’t mean the Holodomor didn’t happen or that the USSR isn’t to blame, only that the intent wasn’t to eradicate a people.
I hope that’s a decent starting point for you to read up on this, in case you’re interested.
I kill 100% of a population AND my intent was to do that = genocide
I kill 100% of a population BUT my intent was only to kill a lot of people = not genocide???
If that’s really what you’re saying is the discrepancy then I have to disagree with this recognition being purely political. This seems like a common sense thing. The holodomor happened, it was mass purposeful death. We can argue if it was targeted against a people or a location, but the effect was clearly bound to some group or region and it was effective within those boundaries to the extent that it could be considered a genocide.
Without doing any reading on the matter for this topic as well, that’s what I’d say.
There’s also a difference between murder with premeditation, murder without premeditation and manslaughter - all three are the death of someone at someone else’s hands, all three are crimes, but that doesn’t make them the same thing. Intentionality matters in law.
The intent is a crucial aspect of the definition of genocide, which was internationally ratified in the Genocide Convention. Suddenly ignoring that when it’s politically expedient is hugely problematic.
I also want to emphasise that something not being a genocide doesn’t mean it can’t be horrible, a crime against humanity or anything else. It’s not a defence in any way, but a matter of using the correct (legally accepted) name.
I’m not doubting you, but when you say “most historians” what do you mean? I have basically no knowledge of this subject, but I’d like to know more and I know better than to take some random comment at face value.
It’s been a while since I read about this, so I don’t have any sources on hand I can point to right now. The core point is that there isn’t really any proof that the Soviets’ goal was to eliminate Ukrainians as a group, which is the main requirement to classify something as a genocide.
Of course, that doesn’t mean the Holodomor didn’t happen or that the USSR isn’t to blame, only that the intent wasn’t to eradicate a people.
I hope that’s a decent starting point for you to read up on this, in case you’re interested.
This is, alas, also disputed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_genocide_question
That feels like a really pedantic difference.
Example:
I kill 100% of a population AND my intent was to do that = genocide
I kill 100% of a population BUT my intent was only to kill a lot of people = not genocide???
If that’s really what you’re saying is the discrepancy then I have to disagree with this recognition being purely political. This seems like a common sense thing. The holodomor happened, it was mass purposeful death. We can argue if it was targeted against a people or a location, but the effect was clearly bound to some group or region and it was effective within those boundaries to the extent that it could be considered a genocide.
Without doing any reading on the matter for this topic as well, that’s what I’d say.
There’s also a difference between murder with premeditation, murder without premeditation and manslaughter - all three are the death of someone at someone else’s hands, all three are crimes, but that doesn’t make them the same thing. Intentionality matters in law.
The intent is a crucial aspect of the definition of genocide, which was internationally ratified in the Genocide Convention. Suddenly ignoring that when it’s politically expedient is hugely problematic.
I also want to emphasise that something not being a genocide doesn’t mean it can’t be horrible, a crime against humanity or anything else. It’s not a defence in any way, but a matter of using the correct (legally accepted) name.