An official FBI document dated January 2021, obtained by the American association “Property of People” through the Freedom of Information Act.
This document summarizes the possibilities for legal access to data from nine instant messaging services: iMessage, Line, Signal, Telegram, Threema, Viber, WeChat, WhatsApp and Wickr. For each software, different judicial methods are explored, such as subpoena, search warrant, active collection of communications metadata (“Pen Register”) or connection data retention law (“18 USC§2703”). Here, in essence, is the information the FBI says it can retrieve:
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Apple iMessage: basic subscriber data; in the case of an iPhone user, investigators may be able to get their hands on message content if the user uses iCloud to synchronize iMessage messages or to back up data on their phone.
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Line: account data (image, username, e-mail address, phone number, Line ID, creation date, usage data, etc.); if the user has not activated end-to-end encryption, investigators can retrieve the texts of exchanges over a seven-day period, but not other data (audio, video, images, location).
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Signal: date and time of account creation and date of last connection.
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Telegram: IP address and phone number for investigations into confirmed terrorists, otherwise nothing.
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Threema: cryptographic fingerprint of phone number and e-mail address, push service tokens if used, public key, account creation date, last connection date.
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Viber: account data and IP address used to create the account; investigators can also access message history (date, time, source, destination).
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WeChat: basic data such as name, phone number, e-mail and IP address, but only for non-Chinese users.
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WhatsApp: the targeted person’s basic data, address book and contacts who have the targeted person in their address book; it is possible to collect message metadata in real time (“Pen Register”); message content can be retrieved via iCloud backups.
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Wickr: Date and time of account creation, types of terminal on which the application is installed, date of last connection, number of messages exchanged, external identifiers associated with the account (e-mail addresses, telephone numbers), avatar image, data linked to adding or deleting.
TL;DR Signal is the messaging system that provides the least information to investigators.
Telegram states at their site that: “To this day, we have disclosed 0 bytes of user data to third parties, including governments.”
But according to Spiegel this is false. I don’t know German, I read the article using google translate, correct me if I’m wrong.
Here is a quote from the article: “Contrary to what has been publicly stated so far, the operators of the messenger app Telegram have released user data to the Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) in several cases.”
If this is true, the fact that they are lying is very worrying…
I distinctly remember Telegram having given a phone number and account creation date for someone to a government, they didn’t have anything else to provide allegedly.
0 bytes of user data meaning message content, I suppose.
I don’t think this is what they mean. If you read the whole paragraph they also talk about “[…]the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption”…
It says that they have nothing to give on Secret chats, and then: “To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption[…]” … “Thanks to this structure, we can ensure[…]” … “To this day, we have disclosed 0 bytes of user data to third parties, including governments.”
I mean, I would consider phone numbers, IPs, metadata, non-secret chats (I don’t know if that’s a thing, never used Telegram), to be “user data”.
I agree with you here, I’m simply playing devils advocate as to how Telegram can get away with this claim. I trust secret chats on Telegram and use them with my more… spicy acquaintances.
Ahhhh, that’s why furries use Telegram!
This is very useful information. People should be free to discuss ideas without the FBI glaring over their shoulder.
Takeaways:
- End-to-end encryption works.
- The only trustworthy computer is your computer. Don’t use cloud storage.
- The only trustworthy software is open-source software. Proprietary software serves the interests of the proprietor, not the user.
All of this was already well-known, of course, but it’s always nice to get confirmation.
As expected, Signal is still the best.
Session is better in my opinion…
And FYI, the info about Signal was confirmed as they received a subpoena a couple years back, and their response was part of the public court records.
Yeah, Signals response pointing to how their service works and than all the data consisting of only these two things war hilarious.
I’m curious what/if any info can be retrieved from Matrix servers?
I believe Matrix has the same encryption as Signal. Though there are some things that leak metadata, like reactions for some reason. Would like an investigation into it as well, as I pretty frequently use it. Obviously this is assuming it’s an encrypted chat. Though would also like to see the comparison of an invite only encrypted room, vs a public joinable encrypted room.
Nope. They are similar, but not the same: Comparison
AFAIK homeservers retain complete metadata for all your conversations.
Also remember this is useless without complementary security measures:
- Encrypt the storage on any device where these are installed (including your desktop/laptop drives if you install e.g. the desktop version of Signal).
- Lock your devices with pin or password, and store that pin/password only in your head (there’s no such thing as telepathy at this point in time so they can’t physically force it out of you, unlike biometric data like your fingerprints).
If you are relying on “Legally they’re not allowed to,” instead of, “They simply can’t, despite all they might try,” then you’re not doing it right.
i love how telegram isn’t even encrypted or anything but they just ghost the authorities
To clarify because this is always a point of confusion whenever the topic comes up. Telegram is, of course, transport encrypted. Someone listening on the wire cannot read your data. It is not end-to-end encrypted, meaning Telegram can always read your messages and can, in principle, give anyone access.
That’s not entirely true. Telegram’s one on one secret chat is end to end encrypted. As well as one on one voice and video calls. Group chats are not end to end encrypted.
Additionally Telegram does have an auto delete features built in for all of its chat types. So while I can’t entirely rule out that Telegram could have a backup of a chat somewhere, you have a bit more piece of mind if you turn on the auto delete feature.
Thanks for the clarification I should have mentioned this. Especially for calls it is actually relevant but I feel like very few people actually use secret chats.
It’s worrying how Telegram says “all your chats are protected with strong encryption” while this is just standard stuff nowadays (wasn’t when Telegram came out, to be fair). While it’s technically true, it’s almost sure to be misinterpreted and have it sound like it’s equal to actual e2ee software
This is why I prefer cloud services outside US jurisdiction, and refuse to use anything based in the USA - like iCloud. National Security Letters are a thing, and even massive companies like Apple can’t fight them.
So basically use signal because they can get the least amount of data.
Or Telegram, unless you’re a confirmed terrorist.
Terrorist can be a very broad term. In France the government is using anti terrorism laws against ecologist organisation.
They also incarcerated people from another organisation 3 years ago using the same antiterrorism law, they haven’t found anything against them so now they are accusing them of using signal for their communication and encryption on their phone and laptop.
“I’m not a terrorist” - Subpoena DENIED
Matrix isn’t on the list at all.
matrix doesnt encrypt any metadata at all pretty much, only message content and files uploaded to encrypted rooms are encrypted
I don’t think the list could have everything
Discord as well though
Discord is not a secure chat app so it’s not listed. Basically, they can get everything from Discord.
signal ftw ✊
Yeah but I’m still mad about their decision to drop SMS/MMS.
Wonderful app, great handling of signal to signal messaging, but it really took away my ability to sell end to encryption to friends and family.
That’s fair, though personally I’m kindof glad they did. “Signal is a secure messaging app” is a lot easier to explain to non-tech-savvy people than “Signal is a secure messaging app, as long as you are messaging someone who is using Signal too. It can also send regular texts but they can’t be encrypted.” Leaving that nuance out would have left people texting with a false assumption of security, but I lost several people explaining it because it “sounds complicated”.
Yeah, but now a lot of people I convinced to use it, no longer use it because they just want to use one app.
it really took away my ability to sell end to encryption to friends and family
As I understand it, SMS and MMS aren’t encrypted (and that’s why support was dropped). Unfortunately, you were never selling your friends e2e as long as they kept using SMS, even if they used it through Signal. In fact, it’s arguable that the false perception of security in “now I’m texting through Signal, and that means it’s secure!” was even more damaging than never having switched in the first place. (Unless they went all the way and stopped using SMS, of course.)
So, nothing is lost from that perspective. Now you can more accurately recommend ppl to use Signal messages instead of SMS and know that you are more accurately selling e2e with every convert because they can’t keep using insecure messaging through Signal.
sms through signal was not encrypted, how would that even work? how would the signal app even know your contacts were using an app that supports encryption?
You’re correct I should have better worded my point: Signal used to be a single app that someone could install that could handle sending out their regular unencrypted SMS messages and Signal encrypted messages.
Signal also did exactly what you’ve described - auto-enabled encryption when it detected another signal user by phone number.
The net result was more people using encrypted messaging.
iMessage is now fully secure like Signal and Telegram, if you’ve enabled advanced data protection in your Apple ID. This also protects your photos and other personal information from snooping and data breaches. Apple users should turn on this great feature in Settings -> iCloud.
Thanks for posting this. I thought I had it on, but guess it never was. Glad I checked.
Even if you turn that on, they’re still scanning your content for, supposedly, child porn.
I very seriously doubt that their scanning is actually limited to child porn. And even if it is, if you take nude selfies and some AI thinks you look like a child, then some Apple employee will have to look at them to confirm…
They cancelled CSAM scanning as of last year. It never actually rolled out, due to backlash.
https://www.wired.com/story/apple-photo-scanning-csam-communication-safety-messages/
I thought they just recently started doing it on your personal device?
Anyone use Session messenger? It doesn’t need a phone number unlike Signal.
I’ve been using session as my family chat. The only thing I dislike is its connection to Oxen. But it makes an interesting case for resistance to Sybil attacks. But that’s not really in my threat model for family messages lol. I’m mostly happy we moved the fuck away from messenger. I’ll probably move them to matrix, but I gotta wait a bit before switching them again lol
In terms of usability, it’s not hard to set up and has been very stable for the 1.5 years we’ve been using it. Even getting my less tech savvy family on it was pretty easy.
Good on you
Yes love Session !
damn this is pretty interesting. thanks for sharing.
No mention of Matrix. Wonder if it’s not on their radar, or they have nothing, or just wasn’t important to put it on there?
Also important to note it’s been well known the CIA uses Matrix internally for communications. If they’re using it for communication it’s probably pretty sturdy.
Whilst enlightening, it’s kinda also useless. Let’s be honest the majority of endusers use a particular app, in the main, because its most likely what everyone else in their friend group uses.
In my case WhatsApp, I’d struggle to get all my friends and family to change at this point.
In my case, I was running phone apps on an iPod Touch, and it couldn’t run WhatsApp. So I convinced a core group of friends to get on Signal back Snowden rec’d it. And the way networks operate, it spread out from there.
