It would of been a lie and never implemented. Even if they had the votes they’d find a democrat spoiler to ruin it in the last hour. Like they always do.
I meant that that alone wouldn’t have earned it. Genocide is a hard line for me. I guess politicians who support genocide don’t have any reason to listen to what I want if they’re not going to stop supporting genocide, so you’re partially right
Point taken, I was referring quite literally to the system. It’s unlikely we’ll have another election, but if we do, expect the democrats to run Liz Cheney. Centrism doesn’t offend their class interests and they don’t care if they lose. So they’ll run a Republican and kneecap anyone to the left of a Republican.
I’m sure she would have if she had more campaign time. There were only so many news cycles between when she started and the election and the media did it’s usual thing of monopolizing coverage of Trump’s insanity (because outrage brings views).
Before the ACA, the Democrats were calling for single payer, not quite M4A but much better than what we got. The ACA was modeled on the Republicans healthcare reform package. Since then the Democrats have been defending the signature plan of Obama even though it is literally the plan their opposition created. Of course, Republicans don’t have a plan and many people voting today don’t remember what it was like in the 00’s where insurers would just dump people when they got sick or jack their rates up so high it wouldn’t be affordable.
The weird thing is that when I first joined the workforce in the 90s insurance was actually better than it is today and less expensive.
Before the ACA, the Democrats were calling for single payer, not quite M4A but much better than what we got.
The same Dems who were calling for single payer before the ACA are still calling for single payer.
The weird thing is that when I first joined the workforce in the 90s insurance was actually better than it is today and less expensive.
Things were way better before the GOP fucked things up in 2003 when they created “high deductable health plans” which very predictably jack up EVERYBODY’s deductables sky high.
many people voting today don’t remember what it was like in the 00’s where insurers would just dump people when they got sick or jack their rates up so high it wouldn’t be affordable.
You see that here in the thread. I think a lot of people forgot how bad it was and lack imagination for how bad things can get.
I think we’re all about to get a reminder over the next 4 years. Boy, I hope elections function at the end of it.
Looking at the numbers in 4 of the swing states, Kamala got more total votes in 2024 than Biden did in 2020, but so many rural voters just came out and voted for trump and against Kamal, so much so that in quite a few of the races Kamala lost but democrats in congress won their races, despite both running on functionally identical platforms.
Sure Dems generally care less and suck because they don’t actually wield power when they have it but at least they’re not actively trying to kill the minority populations and drag us into a theocratic oligarchy to fulfill the Book of Revelations prophesies.
I’d fucking love it if both political parties were trying to best represent their constituents. But they aren’t, and opining for something that doesn’t exist and has never existed isn’t going to do us any good. We work with the tools we have and the people we can to make the best of a shit situation. It that means backing dems because they’re not actively trying to kill minorities I’m gonna go with that on election day and do what I can to mitigate other kinds of damages.
So did I and until something like the fall of the Whig party, split of the northern and southern Democrats and rise of progressive Republicans in the mid 1800s happens, we have to make do with what we have at hand.
I think you drew a lot of conclusions that I’m not sure I can get on board with.
Looking at the numbers in 4 of the swing states, Kamala got more total votes in 2024 than Biden did in 2020
Across the US She got about 7 million votes fewer than Biden in 2020. There was clearly an enthusiasm problem and the dems lost minorities and almost every other demographic in a huge way. DNC didnt want to admit that Biden was historically unpopular. like legendarily so, and they just plum forgot to shore up their base. They instead demanded fealty in exchange for right wing talking points and policies, and prancing loathsome rightwingers like Cuban and Liz Cheney across the stage like we were supposed to be impressed. It was lunacy, with some hubris mixed in for seasoning. So here we are, in the aftermath of corporate shill amateur hour.
They instead demanded fealty in exchange for right wing talking points and policies
There was literally none of those.
prancing loathsome rightwingers like Cuban and Liz Cheney across the stage like we were supposed to be impressed
None of them had any impact on policies in any way. So why would NOT welcome the support of the few conservatives who remained loyal to America instead of going neofascist?
It was lunacy
Getting people’s support without giving up a single thing in return is the opposite of lunacy.
So here we are, in the aftermath of corporate shill amateur hour.
WTF are you talking about. Harris was going to raise taxes on corporations even more than Biden did.
Getting people’s support without giving up a single thing in return is the opposite of lunacy.
without even challenging your other inaccuracies, its a plain fact that harris slowly bled percentages every day for the whole last month of her campaign. Every day lost ground, which only made her double down on looking for rightwing votes which didnt exist.
I voted for Harris, and straight Dem downballot. But no, Harris did not support M4A. Harris did in fact tack to the right during her campaign to try to pick up more moderate Republicans, and this killed my (and many others) enthusiasm and her campaign.
As said in one of the other replies to this comment, it is okay to admit both parties suck. (I am not both sides-ing this, they are not the same, but they both suck for the average American)
The Democratic party has a problem, and the last 3 presidential elections prove it. The last time a Democrat ran on a message of change (Obama), they won handily. But Obama didn’t deliver, and now if any Democrat promises change…well the masses are disillusioned…they don’t think the Democrats actually want change, and the thing is… they are right. Party insiders don’t want significant change to the systems. Biden barely won on a message of “getting back to normal”…when Americans were dying but the thousands, think about how close that race was. I voted for Biden, and Biden actually did okay, he steadied the ship…but did he change anything? Anything I could see and would effect me in my day-to-day life. No, not really. In fact, in most ways life has gotten worse since the pandemic. That may not be Biden’s fault, but he was the president, fault or not. It was his responsibility. Again, nothing changed. Then Harris ran on a slogan of “Not going back”… There is no promise for a future there. Not going back is just not MAGA. I voted for Harris, I hoped as her campaign got off the ground she would distinguish herself from the failure of imagination of the Biden admin. But she kept tacking rightward, she was showing up on stage with all these “centrist” republicans, she leaned into border policy, pro-business, pro-capital, pro-war stances. The same Democratic Party schlock that keeps killing any enthusiasm for a Democratic president since Obama.
The worse things is, we all know what the problems are, and for many of them we know the solutions. They aren’t easy, but there is nothing unique about the problems facing America.
“Unprecedented” Wealth Inequality has a precedence…see the gilded age and the new deal
Healthcare … Every civilized nation has a form of nationalized healthcare, except the US.
Political Polarization… the yellow journalism caused polarization in the 1880’s. Truth in journalism laws were passed, and not repealed until Reagan.
A stagnant ineffective congress. Repeal the filibuster. Beef up ethics investigations.
A compromised judiciary. Multiple presidents throughout history have decided to just ignore the supreme court, because the court has no means of enforcement, enforcement is invested in the executive branch (checks and balances and all that). Additionally, the SC right to review a law for constitutionality was created whole cloth by the Supreme Court, and does not itself exist in the constitution. Finally, expanding the SC can be done by Presidential Order. I mean the SC can decide that it is unconstitutional…but then what…the president seats the justices anyway. Done.
Money in politics. The president is the head of the Law Enforcement branch. There are already laws on the books to shut down corruption, foreign interference, etc… American citizens commit multiple felonies a day without even realizing it (thanks to our byzantine legal system), this is doubly true of all these Corporations and Super-PACs funneling money to and from campaigns and foreign nationals. The laws are there, the will to enforce them is not.
Most/All of this has precedence in the US or other liberal democracy. I am not saying it is easy, but I am saying that it could have been done if the Democrats wanted it.
And addressing these things has popular support. Everyone knows what is wrong, and everyone can see no one is even trying to fix it.
But instead we get slogans that amount to, “nothing will essentially change, but the other guy is worse”, and then wonder why 40% of Americans don’t show up to the polls.
There are a lot of people who have stopped showing up for the Democrats, not because they like Republicans, but because the Democrats stopped showing up for them.
Harris did in fact tack to the right during her campaign to try to pick up more moderate Republicans,
WTF are you talking about? Because I didn’t notice an “tacking” at all.
nothing will essentially change,
She literally had an 82 page plan of economic changes. Were you expecting that the media was going to tell you about all the important stuff? The main stream media buries the important stuff so their billionaire owners can get gigantic GOP tax cuts. That means you have to work extra hard to understand reality. e.g. The 82 page plan of economic changes proposed by Harris. Just because you didn’t know about the plan doesn’t mean that there was nothing in it that would have benefited you in a huge way.
Sure okay, but I am literally looking at the plan now. I don’t see anything about unions, I don’t see any medicare for all or single payer healthcare, I don’t see anything about increasing minimum wage or indexing the minimum wage to inflation. I do see a lot of “helping more people get insurance”, which is exactly the non-solution I was talking about.
I literally see a platform that tinkers around the edges, without making any fundamental changes. But you are here to refute my claims…so tell me/us (everyone else in this thread):
What policies in the 80 page policy book I am currently looking at would have been a kitchen table game changer for me? I am willing to be wrong. I agree that the MSM has a profit motive to not inform the public about good democratic policy. So, you came here to make a point. Make your point.
If you didn’t see the outreach that Harris was doing to centrist republicans, you weren’t watching.
<edit, because I am still reading my way through the 82 pages.>
There is literally nothing in this plan (that I have seen so far) that is a direct reply to a single topic in the comment you are referring to. Like, most of the problems aren’t even acknowledged.
But most importantly, I watched all of Harris’ speeches. Remember, I voted for her. I was excited to vote for the first black women president. I have too many friends who are gay or transgendered to not vote Democrat. But if she had a solution to these issues (as you have said) and the MSM wasn’t telling me. SHE should have told me. I was there. I was listening.
And finally, while the initial lines of the post were about Harris not supporting M4A, which is empirically true and nothing in the document disputes that. The rest of the post was about the failures of the Democrats as a whole over the last 20 years and nothing in Harris’ policy book could reasonably refute that.
Wish Harris channeled that sentiment in her campaign by championing M4A, so people might actually want to vote for her
It would of been a lie and never implemented. Even if they had the votes they’d find a democrat spoiler to ruin it in the last hour. Like they always do.
Yeah I mean it still wouldn’t have earned her my vote, but I guess I meant she should’ve just not been a liberal/Democrat lol
So no politician has any reason to ever listen to what you want. Maybe that’s WHY she didn’t champion M4A. Not enough votes.
I meant that that alone wouldn’t have earned it. Genocide is a hard line for me. I guess politicians who support genocide don’t have any reason to listen to what I want if they’re not going to stop supporting genocide, so you’re partially right
The system failed. It’s over.
Did it fail? As far as I can tell, the system has sucked since its inception, and continues to benefit the same people it always has
Nope. It worked way better before Trump.
That has always depended on the party.
Clinton: raised taxes on rich. Bush: lowered taxes on rich. Obama: raised taxes on rich. Trump: lowered taxes on rich. Biden: raised taxes on rich.
You’re talking to an anarchist. Biden, Obama, and Clinton are all my enemies
Point taken, I was referring quite literally to the system. It’s unlikely we’ll have another election, but if we do, expect the democrats to run Liz Cheney. Centrism doesn’t offend their class interests and they don’t care if they lose. So they’ll run a Republican and kneecap anyone to the left of a Republican.
Or any sentiment at all beyond rightwing nonsense.
I’m sure she would have if she had more campaign time. There were only so many news cycles between when she started and the election and the media did it’s usual thing of monopolizing coverage of Trump’s insanity (because outrage brings views).
why are there so many delusional Democrats?
It’s ok to admit both parties suck. Yes to different degrees, but you don’t have to gaslight yourself into thinking Democrats care about you
Before the ACA, the Democrats were calling for single payer, not quite M4A but much better than what we got. The ACA was modeled on the Republicans healthcare reform package. Since then the Democrats have been defending the signature plan of Obama even though it is literally the plan their opposition created. Of course, Republicans don’t have a plan and many people voting today don’t remember what it was like in the 00’s where insurers would just dump people when they got sick or jack their rates up so high it wouldn’t be affordable.
The weird thing is that when I first joined the workforce in the 90s insurance was actually better than it is today and less expensive.
The same Dems who were calling for single payer before the ACA are still calling for single payer.
Things were way better before the GOP fucked things up in 2003 when they created “high deductable health plans” which very predictably jack up EVERYBODY’s deductables sky high.
You see that here in the thread. I think a lot of people forgot how bad it was and lack imagination for how bad things can get.
I think we’re all about to get a reminder over the next 4 years. Boy, I hope elections function at the end of it.
Looking at the numbers in 4 of the swing states, Kamala got more total votes in 2024 than Biden did in 2020, but so many rural voters just came out and voted for trump and against Kamal, so much so that in quite a few of the races Kamala lost but democrats in congress won their races, despite both running on functionally identical platforms.
Sure Dems generally care less and suck because they don’t actually wield power when they have it but at least they’re not actively trying to kill the minority populations and drag us into a theocratic oligarchy to fulfill the Book of Revelations prophesies.
I’d fucking love it if both political parties were trying to best represent their constituents. But they aren’t, and opining for something that doesn’t exist and has never existed isn’t going to do us any good. We work with the tools we have and the people we can to make the best of a shit situation. It that means backing dems because they’re not actively trying to kill minorities I’m gonna go with that on election day and do what I can to mitigate other kinds of damages.
I mean, I voted for every Dem I could. I voted as hard as I could. But I also think we should ALL be publicly outraged at how bad the two parties are.
So did I and until something like the fall of the Whig party, split of the northern and southern Democrats and rise of progressive Republicans in the mid 1800s happens, we have to make do with what we have at hand.
I think you drew a lot of conclusions that I’m not sure I can get on board with.
Across the US She got about 7 million votes fewer than Biden in 2020. There was clearly an enthusiasm problem and the dems lost minorities and almost every other demographic in a huge way. DNC didnt want to admit that Biden was historically unpopular. like legendarily so, and they just plum forgot to shore up their base. They instead demanded fealty in exchange for right wing talking points and policies, and prancing loathsome rightwingers like Cuban and Liz Cheney across the stage like we were supposed to be impressed. It was lunacy, with some hubris mixed in for seasoning. So here we are, in the aftermath of corporate shill amateur hour.
There was literally none of those.
None of them had any impact on policies in any way. So why would NOT welcome the support of the few conservatives who remained loyal to America instead of going neofascist?
Getting people’s support without giving up a single thing in return is the opposite of lunacy.
WTF are you talking about. Harris was going to raise taxes on corporations even more than Biden did.
without even challenging your other inaccuracies, its a plain fact that harris slowly bled percentages every day for the whole last month of her campaign. Every day lost ground, which only made her double down on looking for rightwing votes which didnt exist.
M4a wasn’t even on her platform (it was in 2020, so not having it was deliberate)
I voted for Harris, and straight Dem downballot. But no, Harris did not support M4A. Harris did in fact tack to the right during her campaign to try to pick up more moderate Republicans, and this killed my (and many others) enthusiasm and her campaign.
As said in one of the other replies to this comment, it is okay to admit both parties suck. (I am not both sides-ing this, they are not the same, but they both suck for the average American)
The Democratic party has a problem, and the last 3 presidential elections prove it. The last time a Democrat ran on a message of change (Obama), they won handily. But Obama didn’t deliver, and now if any Democrat promises change…well the masses are disillusioned…they don’t think the Democrats actually want change, and the thing is… they are right. Party insiders don’t want significant change to the systems. Biden barely won on a message of “getting back to normal”…when Americans were dying but the thousands, think about how close that race was. I voted for Biden, and Biden actually did okay, he steadied the ship…but did he change anything? Anything I could see and would effect me in my day-to-day life. No, not really. In fact, in most ways life has gotten worse since the pandemic. That may not be Biden’s fault, but he was the president, fault or not. It was his responsibility. Again, nothing changed. Then Harris ran on a slogan of “Not going back”… There is no promise for a future there. Not going back is just not MAGA. I voted for Harris, I hoped as her campaign got off the ground she would distinguish herself from the failure of imagination of the Biden admin. But she kept tacking rightward, she was showing up on stage with all these “centrist” republicans, she leaned into border policy, pro-business, pro-capital, pro-war stances. The same Democratic Party schlock that keeps killing any enthusiasm for a Democratic president since Obama.
The worse things is, we all know what the problems are, and for many of them we know the solutions. They aren’t easy, but there is nothing unique about the problems facing America.
“Unprecedented” Wealth Inequality has a precedence…see the gilded age and the new deal
Healthcare … Every civilized nation has a form of nationalized healthcare, except the US.
Political Polarization… the yellow journalism caused polarization in the 1880’s. Truth in journalism laws were passed, and not repealed until Reagan.
A stagnant ineffective congress. Repeal the filibuster. Beef up ethics investigations.
A compromised judiciary. Multiple presidents throughout history have decided to just ignore the supreme court, because the court has no means of enforcement, enforcement is invested in the executive branch (checks and balances and all that). Additionally, the SC right to review a law for constitutionality was created whole cloth by the Supreme Court, and does not itself exist in the constitution. Finally, expanding the SC can be done by Presidential Order. I mean the SC can decide that it is unconstitutional…but then what…the president seats the justices anyway. Done.
Money in politics. The president is the head of the Law Enforcement branch. There are already laws on the books to shut down corruption, foreign interference, etc… American citizens commit multiple felonies a day without even realizing it (thanks to our byzantine legal system), this is doubly true of all these Corporations and Super-PACs funneling money to and from campaigns and foreign nationals. The laws are there, the will to enforce them is not.
Most/All of this has precedence in the US or other liberal democracy. I am not saying it is easy, but I am saying that it could have been done if the Democrats wanted it.
And addressing these things has popular support. Everyone knows what is wrong, and everyone can see no one is even trying to fix it.
But instead we get slogans that amount to, “nothing will essentially change, but the other guy is worse”, and then wonder why 40% of Americans don’t show up to the polls.
There are a lot of people who have stopped showing up for the Democrats, not because they like Republicans, but because the Democrats stopped showing up for them.
Nailed it
Well stated. I cant imagine how any of what you said is controversial at this point.
WTF are you talking about? Because I didn’t notice an “tacking” at all.
She literally had an 82 page plan of economic changes. Were you expecting that the media was going to tell you about all the important stuff? The main stream media buries the important stuff so their billionaire owners can get gigantic GOP tax cuts. That means you have to work extra hard to understand reality. e.g. The 82 page plan of economic changes proposed by Harris. Just because you didn’t know about the plan doesn’t mean that there was nothing in it that would have benefited you in a huge way.
Sure okay, but I am literally looking at the plan now. I don’t see anything about unions, I don’t see any medicare for all or single payer healthcare, I don’t see anything about increasing minimum wage or indexing the minimum wage to inflation. I do see a lot of “helping more people get insurance”, which is exactly the non-solution I was talking about.
I literally see a platform that tinkers around the edges, without making any fundamental changes. But you are here to refute my claims…so tell me/us (everyone else in this thread): What policies in the 80 page policy book I am currently looking at would have been a kitchen table game changer for me? I am willing to be wrong. I agree that the MSM has a profit motive to not inform the public about good democratic policy. So, you came here to make a point. Make your point.
If you didn’t see the outreach that Harris was doing to centrist republicans, you weren’t watching.
<edit, because I am still reading my way through the 82 pages.> There is literally nothing in this plan (that I have seen so far) that is a direct reply to a single topic in the comment you are referring to. Like, most of the problems aren’t even acknowledged.
But most importantly, I watched all of Harris’ speeches. Remember, I voted for her. I was excited to vote for the first black women president. I have too many friends who are gay or transgendered to not vote Democrat. But if she had a solution to these issues (as you have said) and the MSM wasn’t telling me. SHE should have told me. I was there. I was listening.
And finally, while the initial lines of the post were about Harris not supporting M4A, which is empirically true and nothing in the document disputes that. The rest of the post was about the failures of the Democrats as a whole over the last 20 years and nothing in Harris’ policy book could reasonably refute that.
Please copy and paste here, Good Sir or Madam:
https://democrats.org/contact-us/