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Depends on the loved one, tbh 🤷🏼♂️
This guy is already implying that youll like it better if 3 randoms die as 1 loved one, he’s choosing for you already in the explanation 😭😭😭
Yeah, would work better if there was one stranger in the middle
More challenging if there’s only one person on the middle tracks.
This is only superficially a prisoner’s dilemma. In a true one, you cannot get a better result for yourself no matter what the other person does, but here if you assume the other person pulled the lever, there is no reason to pull the lever yourself.
To fix this, you can have 4 relatives on the trolley, and 5 of the opposite faction way back on the middle track. Both do nothing, 1 relative of each is killed. One guy switches the lever, their relatives are all fine, other guy loses 5. Both switch, crash with all 8 relatives on the trolley dead.
I see what you’re trying to do and you’re not necessarily wrong, but you’re kinda perpetuating the attitude that inspired someone to make this meme in the first place
I’m not sure I follow. Should this meme’s creator not have been inspired?
Touche. But no, my point was more of a haphazard reflection on how both the Trolley Problem and Prisoner’s Dilemma are (by design) built on the idea of reducing human life and/or morality and empathy down to a math problem. It is a method of thought that has its purposes, sure, but I think too many people make that their default setting, which makes dehumanization more common, even if subconsciously. Idk man, I’m going through some stuff
Edit: Fixed a pretty bad typo
Given that this problem is given during corporate interviews … it probably screens for the requisite level of sociopathy.
for the longest time, i did know that game theory did not have anything to do with “games” and that it is somehow connected to the prisoners dilemma, but the concept as such wasn’t very clear to me. If you are like my former me, take 30 minutes out of your day and visit https://ncase.me/trust/ to learn and play around with game theory; it’s a great webpage and it’s pretty good fun all around.
I did a few game theory simulations in college and they were always real interesting. In one of them for example, it was a multiplayer game, with multiple interactions. I think it was to simulate global trade basically: you could cooperate with as many players as you want and each time you cooperate you both get a point. If you defect then you get two and they get none. However, all the players could see what the other players are doing, so if you defected they would know and probably would play (trade) with you. The best way to win was to form as many connections as possible and fully cooperate the whole time.
I formed maybe like 20-30 connections with other players and didn’t defect. Each point was worth a few cents or something. So I walked out with a check for like $20-$50 or something. Many players walked out with nothing because they cheated too many people too many times and nobody wanted to trade with them.
Therefore, clearly, the best economic policy is protectionism, tariffs, trade wars, and fucking over both allies and enemies, right? Right?!?
Your simulation seems to only punish selfish actors when that’s not always the case. Doesn’t include natural monopolies, lacks clandestine exploitation, and there’s likely no market capture or saturation. In such a case the only play is to cooperate.
That page is very well done and interesting, thanks for sharing!
For those interested, Veritasium has a very good video on this. It also sort of tells what strategy is optimal to “win”.
Thank you for sharing the link. That webpage is amazing!
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If you think about this for any length of time and actually imagine this scenario, you realise you don’t pull the lever and it’s not even close.
Wrong. You pick the obviously wrong moral stance and then aggressively yell about it on the internet. The more obvious it becomes that you are wrong, the louder you yell. This protects your ego from introspection.
SHUT UP. THE RIGHT CHOICE IS TO DROP A NUKE ON EVERYONE.
💡
That’s something a lot of people will do for fun.
that right, I’d masturbate on the tracks and on the people tied to the tracks so they are slipery and can slide or bounce to safety. And before you judge me, its the only thing I’m really good at and we should make the most of what we have in life.
Failing that for whatever reason (or maybe in addition to that), I’d asses which of the prospects are lefties and make sure those people in particular live. Sorry centrists and republicans, but we need the votes and some people have to die, but I’m focussed on doing the least harm here.
wildest trolley solution I’ve seen so far lmao (the slippery jon trons)
But then your loved one (mom, dad, sister,child) dies.
You realize this is your family watching you make the decision to have their vehicle run over a loved one? There’s a possibility they all live if you pull it.
Or if you pull it, then they see you make the decision to risk their lives to kill three other people.
What is better, three lives lost or one life lost?
ok but what if the 3 in the middle were avg US swing state voters.
The other side would deal with them then.
How much did I like that one guy really.
Are the 5 people on the opposong trolley worthy of death? Will killing them outweigh losing my loved ones?
Or is the one loved one ill save my really hot 1st cousin?
Because with the rest of the family dead, we can live happily ever after without any annoying incest complaints.
ಠ_ಠ
If these are tracks in the US then I just understaff the engineers and maintenance teams and the train derails before I have to make a decision, checkmate.
If these tracks are in the US, so I am. So I shoot the other guy with the gun(s) I usually carry around when I go out and then pull the lever.
This isn’t philosophy anymore, it’s just game theory
it’s interdisciplinary.
por qué no los dos
I was thinking the same!
holy prisoner dilemma!
But what is philosophy really?
Not even. Game Theory is supposed to take a lot of stuff into account. Boiling it down to this is insulting and a way to paint situations like proxy wars as immoral.
wow what an excellent day in the neighbourhood
i sure hope I won’t be faced with an ethical dilemma in the very near future
This was super funny, this person has a great career ahead of her. Very Tim and Eric style obscure indie comedy, I loved it.
Well obviously you should pull the lever once the front wheels past the split but before the rear wheels cross it, so that trolley gets off the rails. This way everybody has the chance to survive and you have defensible position during inevitable court hearing.
Just kill them all
with a knife or whatever
I ban trolleys. Everyone walks.
Have these folks seen The Good Place? Or are they just approaching the same conclusion by accident?
By far the smartest show ever written and it’s not even close!
Lmao what. Sure it covers philosophy 101, but not as smart as say, Dark, Mr Robot, Better Call Saul, Watchmen etc.
Those shows are a good way to dip your toes into the subject before you start Rick and Morty.
Yo shhhh, keep it down!!! Rick and Morty is hidden sigma knowledge only. You can’t be sending virgin minds directly to the smartest goatest show of all time like that without any brain training and a Duolingo accreditation of at least 5 languages. Remember what happened to Prometheus? Yeah that will be you if you don’t keep it on the down low.
You need to watch more shows. Don’t get me wrong, I like The Good Place and what they were trying to do with it, but yeah no there’s a lot of other shows that are just as educational and well written that don’t have to do a show-wide reset to start every season
Idk … Andor has a really good message.
For a second there, I really thought you meant
This feels too high quality for a shit post.
Gotta make sure your fiber intake is decent so you get good quality shit like this
