Trump told Benjamin Netanyahu in one call this month, “Do what you have to do,” according to six people familiar with the conversation who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive and confidential information. Trump has said publicly that the two have spoken at least twice in October, with one call as recently as Oct. 19.
“He didn’t tell him what to do militarily, but he expressed that he was impressed by the pagers,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina), who was on a call this month with Trump and Netanyahu, referring to the Israeli operation that killed Hezbollah leaders with explosive batteries inside pagers. “He expressed his awe for their military operations and what they have done.”
Graham added: “He told them, do what you have to do to defend yourself, but we’re openly talking about a new Mideast. Trump understands that very much there has to be change with the corrupt Palestinian state.”
Surely the tankies will take notice of fhis and… Ha, no. They still say Kamala supports genocide despite her being the only candidate pushing for peace.
They didn’t, this isn’t the first time the turnip has said something like this. Last time it was that Israel is going to slow.
I just got into an argument with one of these dipshits the other day. Sick of their aggressively stupid, profoundly ignorant takes.
Biden has made it clear that his support for Netanyahu is unconditional and his words about peace are empty. Harris has made it clear that her position regarding Gaza is identical to his.
Sigh, here they come!
Aww. People who don’t love genocide like you are all tankies.
We are literally in a thread where it’s reported that Trump plans to let Israel do whatever the fuck they want, and you still want to pretend that Harris is somehow the worse choice.
I didn’t say she was the worse choice. I voted for her already.
She should still change her stance on Netanyahu’s genocide. So should the entire pro-genocide centrist wing of the Democratic Party.
Then I suppose we are in agreement.
Not sure why you are in here calling people genocide lovers for pointing that out though.
Lack of braincells does that.
“Harris should change her stance regarding Netanyahu’s genocide” maps 1:1 with trump support, as far as a lot of lemmy is concerned.
People are so invested in their support for genocide that they can’t imagine anyone opposing it in good faith.
You’re preaching into an echo chamber. If these (totally not bots) people can’t read the writing under their noses, they won’t be swayed by you. They’ll wait until it’s moot and then half-assedly say they were duped, à la, as we saw with Baby Boomers and Reagan.
They’ll just blame the left like they did when Clinton lost.
A vote for Trump is a vote for genocide, guaranteed. You are insane if you support him over Harris and think that will do anything but makes things waaaaaaaaaay worse for not just Palestinians, but people in general. Telling people who opt for the lesser of two evils that they “love genocide” is full-on stupid.
You are insane if you support him over Harris
And once again, I have already voted for Harris. She should stop supporting genocide even though it will make you sad.
EDIT: centrists downvote voting for Harris because all they actually care about is supporting the genocide.
What you say makes sense if you don’t pay attention.
Cool. Where does she differ from Biden on the issue of Netanyahu’s genocide?
EDIT: Silly centrists, downvotes aren’t examples!
I didn’t realize the choice was Harris vs Biden.
Oh yeah, I didn’t know that because it isn’t true. The choice is Harris vs the guy that says Netanyahu should finish the job, criticized him purely for letting his genocidal actions make it to the media, thinks Biden is being too tough on him, and has been in constant contact as a private citizen deliberately undermining peace negotiations.
Harris losing means Bibi’s BFF wins. You’d have to be a pretty evil person with no sympathy for innocent Palestinians to want that to happen. Do you want that to happen?
My assertion was that Harris’ policy doesn’t differ from Biden’s.
Silly centrist, arguing against things I didn’t say because you can’t defend your support for genocide.
I voted for Harris. Keep arguing as though I haven’t just because I’m critical of the only policy centrists won’t abandon at the slightest pressure.
I think the use of the term “unconditional” is fairly reductive. While any US government may continue military support regardless of Israel’s behavior, some governments will be more effective than others in restraining Netanyahu or nesuring Gazan’s receive appropriate support.
I feel confident that neither Biden nor Harris are calling Netanyahu and saying “do what you have to do”.
So true, gut feeling has always been a more reliable barometer of facts than logic and reasoning.
Everyone raised around leaded gas knows that.
I think the use of the term “unconditional” is fairly reductive.
We have imposed no conditions. Would you prefer “enthusiastic”? Because it’s that too.
Actually we have imposed conditions.
They were bulldozed.
There were no consequences.
Unconditional is apt.
Sure, but you have to acknowledge that of Harris and Trump, one of them would be more unconditional and enthusiastic than the other right?
Already have, plenty of times.
But that doesn’t mean I don’t get to gripe, and it doesn’t mean that griping about it makes me a trumper.
It just looks like centrists just want people to fake happiness about being manipulated into voting for centrists’ genocide.
Ok, that’s precisely why “unconditional” is reductive. It reduces a spectrum of possibilities to a binary “conditional” vs “unconditional” and produces a “both sides are the same” argument.
it doesn’t mean that griping about it makes me a trumper.
Except, it really does though? Complaining about Harris is precisely what the republicans, trumpers, and Netanyahu want you to be doing.
You might not like Trump, but you absolutely are (apparently unwittingly) carrying a lot of water for him.
You don’t give a shit who gets elected, as long as no one says anything bad about literal fucking genocide.
When the election is over, what will your new excuse be for why no one can be upset about genocide?
Another felony? It looks like this Trump guy is trying to get as many as possible.
When he was calling with Putin a month ago, I saw articles claiming that in America you’re not allowed to have diplomatic calls like this if you are not in a position to do so.
Hey, if I would discover that I’m immune to laws, I would also probably ignore a good deal of them
He won’t get charged with anything because DeCoRuM
Aren’t the pagers a war crime? Hiding explosives inside regular objects?
Yes.
But let’s shit on Harris anyway lol. Dumb fucks.
It was always astro turfers
I told my boss that i couldn’t stay overtime because i had to pick up my kids, no other option. He said do what you have to do and I’ll do what i have to do.
I left to take care of my kids and he wrote me up on disciplinary action.
“nO oNE wAnTs to WOrK aNYmoRe”
People quit bad management, not “bad jobs.”
But protest voting against Harris is the answer, don’t you see? It’s so obvious. Sure, more Palestinians will die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make, so I can be an edgy social-media radical! Do you even means of production, bro?
So that’s illegal.
It’s like perjury.
It’s only illegal when a Dem does it.
The Hatch act?
The Logan Act.
Trump will pull out some Marshmallows and roast them in the fires of their Burnt out towns. Vote against him for any kind of future.
Netanyahu is working for Trump. Biden should stop working for Netanyahu.
Netanyahu is working for Trump
And yet here you are doing everything in your power to get him elected. Huh.
And here you are doing absolutely nothing but supporting Netanyahu’s genocide for the sheer love of it.
You know I voted for Harris.
You know I voted for Harris.
Sure, bud. I know I can’t verify that but I doubt it. You wouldn’t wholly support genocide like you’re accusing others of, would you? 🙄
Sure, bud. I know I can’t verify that but I doubt it.
Of course you think I’m lying. I’m not Netanyahu.
deleted by creator
Don’t forget to vote third party to teach the Democrats a lesson about genocide….
Seriously the American Gaza protests are 100% about disenfranchising Democrats. They absolutely never go after Republicans. Ever. Ask them about this and they get suuuuper defensive and angry.
Oh yeah definitely. People couldn’t possibly be protesting to try to stop a Holocaust. It’s all about the Democrats.
You are the same people who were saying Biden should stay in the race and were dumbfounded when it looked like Democrats might actually have a chance once he stepped down.
If you people used half your energy to pushed Harris to take a principled stance on Palestine and stand up to Israel it would lead to a landslide victory.
Instead you want to shit on the left and let yourselves be pulled further to the right.
Meanwhile you’ve got shitstains like Elon Musk doing everything he can to ensure a Republican victory.
You only have yourselves to blame if she loses. Either way you’re going to go back to your lives and go to brunch, not taking any form of direct political action until the next election whatever happens.
Instead you want to shit on the left and let yourselves be pulled further to the right.
As though they’re being pulled.
Of course not. These protests are about saying “we want to vote for you, but we need to see you do something about this”
Republicans being bloodthirsty fascists is a given, Democrats aren’t supposed to be. Kamala’s campaign should be the one messaging how awful Trump would be for Gaza, not random forum posters, but they don’t because she doesn’t have any functionally different policy on that than Trump.
I don’t get why this is hard to grasp.
You know what virtually every 3rd party advocate like you doesn’t say? Anything about how the 3rd party candidate would be good for Americans’ day to day life.
What will your 3rd party candidate (lets ignore the fact that not a sigle post advocates an actual candidate)do for me that directly impacts me and my family’s life? Will they fund social security? Are they advocates for ranked choice voting? Are they pro choice? Are they pro universal Healthcare? How about corporate reform? Dark money in politics? Net nutrality? Fucking crickets on all these topics from yall.
If you would get off the ONLY topic you all spew, maybe, just maybe, you could change some minds. The 3rd party push is so disingenuous, it’s just as bad as Republicans who only vote for Trump due to him helping overturn Roe v Wade.
I am not a 3rd party advocate. Jill Stein and her ilk are grifters.
If you are not a 3rd party advocate, are you one of the nonvoters? Potatoe potahtoe
Look, neither of the candidates are perfect across the board. One candidate is by far the better one for my family being mixed race, immigrant family members, mostly women, most work public service and some are on medicade and social security. One candidate is staunchly against all of that. The 3rd party candidates are ghosts on all of those topics.
One candidate is giving Israel carte blanch to do what they want and to “get the job done”. The candidate I’m voting for is not aligned with how I want that situation handled, but it is less bad than “do what you want”.
If I don’t vote or if I vote 3rd party, or I vote Trump, I can’t live with how my family and I will potentially be treated.
That leaves me one fucking choice that isn’t 100% what I want, but 80% is way better than the alternatives.
Both parties are the “get the job done” party. This administration has continued to give unconditional aid to Israel, and has not done anything remotely resembling a penalty to them for conducting a genocide. The only difference is the rhetoric.
I’m not saying don’t vote for Kamala, I hope she wins. My point is that all this anger should be directed at the party for alienating large swaths of the population that should be their base. I can empathize with someone who has family in Palestine or Lebanon that does not feel like they can in good conscience vote for the party that is supplying bombs being dropped on their loved ones.
This should be an easy win, Donald Trump is an incredibly unpopular candidate, and we should be outraged at the Democrats for making misstep after misstep in this campaign.
Yeah. If the democrats are having nonstop push back from the Republicans, not letting them do what they actually want, a third party candidate is REALLY going to get it done. They just gotta go in and drain the swamp, right?
You realise you’re doing absolutely 100% precisely what the Trump campaign would have you do right?
You’re literally protesting against your own side.
This election will not be won or lost by a few hapless protestors, but rather by swing voters who are clueless about politics and have no idea what a gazan is. To those voters you’re making Trump seem like a beacon of ethics and moral standing.
Go protest outside a Trump rally. I’m sure that will work out well.
u/xmonk couldn’t have said it better. I would say you have to be the stupidest person on earth to vote 3rd party but I know that Magidiots exist.
You do nothing but enable genocide by voting 3rd party. A Democrat loss in November GUARANTEES the genocide continues. The Republican Party is the party of Israel and they would bend over backwards to give them whatever is necessary to bring back Jesus Christ
A billion times this, but also I’m yelling and the veins are bulging in my neck. It’s so far beyond beyond idiocy, so much so that I’m now convinced that left/right is a circle and these gnat-brained children are basically stealth Maga.
Go read that article, especially the “Academic Studies and Criticism” section.
Just pointing out that it’s a theory that already exists
Not to mention I haven’t seen one of these 3rd party voters mention Ukraine. The Dems are the only thing standing between Russia and a lot more Ukrainians dying. If nothing else, vote Dem for them.
That and they’re also not talking about what will happen to all minorities and women in the USA itself.
Once again, I am not advocating for 3rd parties. You guys are shadowboxing.
I’m saying don’t blame the people because the Democrats shat the bed in this election. Neither party is willing to reign in Israel, the Biden administration has done absolutely nothing to stop the genocide.
I’m not going to fault someone one way or the other about their decision to vote for Kamala.
Don’t worry I’ll do it for both of us.
I say this just for the others that will read it but if a normal Republican was running I’d vote red because I do not agree with a lot of kamalas policies and she seems unable to answer basic questions on how she will accomplish anything.
The issue lies with Trump. He was a terrible president and he is a pathological liar. I wish to God our candidates were anti murder but that’s not the case. We have to choose the lesser of 2 evils and make our complaints known in the next primary and throughout the presidency, whomever wins.
Problem with voting red at all is that republicans were trash to begin with.
How else did Trump rise to power?
Pence is being celebrated for going against Trump, meanwhile pence was actively fighting gay marriage while governor of Indiana.
Republicans are a shit stain on modern society.
Palestinian lives are a sacrifice the gaming-chair leftists are willing to make.
We can be anti Israel and anti trump at the same time bud. If you enjoy trumps America just say so. Don’t need to hide behind your facade of moral high ground.
Perhaps you can. Many others seem to find it difficult to wrap their head around the idea that, for the nonce, there’s no way to be anti-fascist while aiding in the election of Trump, no matter how many rhetorical contortions are made.
Removed by mod
🤣
If you voted uncommitted in the primaries - rock on brother, you were part of sending a strong message to the DNC.
If you plan on voting anyone but Harris in the general election - get fucked, you’re accelerating the genocide.
Don’t forget that showing up BETWEEN ELECTIONS to shape your local political scene is how real, long-term change in politics is accomplished.
I wonder how many of these people who claim they can’t vote for Harris because they “need to teach the Democratic Party a lesson” have participated in primary elections or attended local party meetings to affect change.
Zero. The answer is zero.
Never, because before October 7th, they had never even heard of Hamas, let alone have any awareness of the Palestinian struggle that has been ongoing for nearly a century .
Well then you’re about to get what you want. You’ll teach her a lesson. Congratulations. Hope it’s fucking worth it.
Lmao they’re not going to learn anything. Their takeaway will be “we didn’t try hard enough to capture moderate Republicans” and shift further to the right.
Instead of getting mad at people for not voting for a candidate that doesn’t align with their interests, maybe you should be mad at the Democratic party for running a dogshit campaign. Even from a pragmatic point of view, its a lot easier to put pressure on the party than to yell at hundreds of thousands of people with varying reasons for not wanting to vote for her.
Oh good. At least you’re aware you’re killing Palestinians, taking away women’s bodily autonomy, persecuting immigrants, and pushing the Democrat party further right. I guess I appreciate your honesty.
Crazy how you can look at the Democratic administration taking zero action on any of those things and somehow make it my fault, but go off king.
They’re trying to get people who will vote to vote for her. The aren’t going to count on people who are saying they won’t show up.
They’ve been doing it since Clinton won as a third-way Democrat in the 90s.
It’s the only fucking way, demographically, that Democrats can consistently win. I consider myself a progressive, but I’m also aware that people need to participate more than once every four years if they want their party to change. But until that happens, they have zero reason to believe that it makes more sense to go left than center to get more votes (enough to win).
Blame yourselves
I’m deeply pissed off at democrats for a lot of shit… I’m still not willing to murder women or Palestinians to express it.
If Trump is elected, women will die easily preventable deaths and he has promised to accelerate the genocide.
I’m not even advocating against voting for Harris, just don’t blame the people that didn’t if she loses.
No, I’ll fully blame 3rd party voters. Fuck em just as hard as actual Republicans.
We all want better candidates. Literally every single democratic voter. But we understand what’s going on.
I won’t, although they should feel deep shame for contributing to a genocide.
I think Harris was a weak pick and our lack of a primary was a serious mistake. I blame the DNC for hand picking the next candidate instead of allowing the democratic process to proceed.
But, at this point, Harris is our candidate… so I hope to fuck she wins.
Do more. Get her and others in office, and then let them have it with your demands that we not only stop helping the war, but be active in forcing it to stop. Do that regardless of who is in office, but even in the “both sides” mentality which is more likely to sway to a huge public outcry, left or right?
This didn’t begin with this election or Harris’ campaign, although it sure feels like coverage ramped up around that time. Coincidence?
A side note on the primary - I do agree that Biden shouldn’t have started a second run and we should have had a proper primary. We didn’t, and the change to Harris was so late in the game doing a primary (if that’s even legally possible) would have done more damage and missed the effect it had on Trump. We can’t fix the past, only try and navigate the present, otherwise we’d probably be best to go back to 1947 and prevent this whole mistake of using superstition and western colonialism dictate what borders are where.
Good luck at the gulag.
2 points:
-
More blatant violation of the (edit: corrected) Logan Act
-
The Israeli attack on Iran should very neatly effect the election I’d think :(
I think you mean a violation of the Logan Act. The Hatch Act prohibits federal employees, except POTUS and VPOTUS, from engaging in some forms of political activities. The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen.
There’s even a section in the Logan Act wikipedia page about trump.
Yeah, my bad, confused the two.
Who is gonna do something it?
Owner class and their puppets are mostly above the law.
-
I’m still undecided.
Can I wait until I’m in a camp to cast my vote for the Hitler fan?
Additionally, and most interestingly:
A pro-Trump super PAC called Future Coalition PAC has been placing contradictory ads targeting Arab voters in Michigan and Jewish voters in Pennsylvania. The group’s digital ads in Michigan portray Harris as taking Israel’s side against pro-Palestinian protesters. In Pennsylvania, on the other hand, the group’s ads question her support for Israel and accuse her of “pandering to Palestine.”
Sorry not sorry, but the left got played like a fiddle by not understanding the more immediate existential threat to their survival, and now I’m afraid we’ll all suffer for it. Bibi put Biden in what he knew was an unwinnable situation where he had to choose between appealing to 3% of Michigan voters (Arab-Americans) and appealing to 3% of Pennsylvania voters (Jewish Americans), and now the left flank is turning toward Trump over it and he might win both states:
“Because the situation has escalated in recent weeks, I think a lot people say what’s the difference?” said Warren David, a third-generation Arab American who is president of Arab America, a digital media platform. “ I am shocked at how many people say they are voting for Trump, when we were talking to people on the streets in bakeries and in different places. Trump is really capitalizing on this.” David said he was approached by a Trump surrogate to appear at his conference in Michigan this weekend and said no. Others — including leaders from the “uncommitted” movement who urged votes against Biden in the Democratic primary race — are appearing, he said.
Heaven help us all.
But I was assured that minority demographics would never vote against their own interests, no matter how hard the single-issue drum was beaten???
Don’t worry - the Terminally Online Leftists will change their tune from “It won’t change the election” to “If Palestine gets genocided by Israel, it’s only fair minorities in the US are genocided too”.
If you head on over to Hexbear they have at least one person who will happily tell you any amount of collateral damage to minority groups is acceptable as long as Donald executes white liberals en masse. Is that close enough?
I’m honestly surprised I haven’t heard that yet.
It’s not too late for Harris to come out with a strong message of change in foreign policy towards Israel, if elected. All she has to do is promise that she’ll make sure international and US law is respected, and to contrast that with what Trump has told Bibi.
Yep, and risk losing Pennsylvania which is a statistical tie. Brilliant tactical move.
Breaking from Biden and supporting an Arms Embargo or Conditional Military Aid would be a major boost in voter output. Especially in swing states, including Pennsylvania, by a ratio of 7:1. Her lack of change from Biden is much more risky move in terms of losing Pennsylvania.
Quote
Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.
- Split Ticket (July 2024)
Quotes
In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
- New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)
Quotes
- Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)
Quotes
Quotes
Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
Yeah I’ve seen those stats before. I can point to data and testimony, too:
https://www.wesa.fm/politics-government/2024-10-23/pennsylvania-jewish-voters-trump-israel-democrats
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/22/politics/jewish-voters-pennsylvania-election/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/07/us/politics/jewish-voters.html
https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/article-825876
Her lack of change from Biden is much more risky move in terms of losing Pennsylvania.
I’ll note that none of your surveys asked voters how importantly they rate current levels antisemitism, or whether or not they’d vote for one candidate over another if Iran launched a military attack on Israel after we withdrew aid. Overall the questions in those surveys (I’ve read them) are perfect examples of framing choices in a systematic way to arrive at answers you want to hear. Are they wrong? Not necessarily? But do they capture the whole picture? Hardly.
And furthermore, the fact that the “uncommitted” folks (plus Jews and Arabs in both swing states) are stumping for Trump rather than just opting out completely proves that their primary concern is absolutely not the Palestinian people. When you turn away from the person calling for a ceasefire and toward Chief Muslim Ban when he tells Bibi, “Do what you have to do” for the “waterfront property”, you’ve proven your responses to those survey questions are carefully crafted, self-delusional poppycock.
And in any case, they’re about to enjoy the fruits of their labor. They might survive the Project 2025 purge, and their relatives might survive the turning of the sands of Gaza to glass (and then condominiums and casinos), but I doubt it. Y’all want Trump? You’re about to get him. Stay vigilant when they come for you.
Antisemitism is on the rise which is exactly why it’s important not to conflate Judaism with Zionism. That conflation stokes genuine Antisemitism which of course is completely unacceptable.
Conditional Military Aid is to ensure the weapons are not used for violations of international humanitarian law, such as genocide. It does not bar defensive weaponry that can defend from missle strikes. Israel’s escalations of genocide in Gaza, now extending the same tactics used to Lebanon, is directly increasing the likelihood of even more escalations. All of which put Israeli civilians at risk. Conditional Aid in order to force Israel to de-escalate, would make military strikes from Iran far less likely.
So shifting from Biden and supporting conditional military aid in order to pressure Israel to end the genocide and take a genuine permanent ceasefire seriously, would both help Harris’ chances of winning the election and improve the safety of Israelis in Israel.
Despite Trump’s horrendous track record, such as literally Hitlarian rhetoric, his support of actual Nazis, and his own antisemitic remarks, why is he gaining in support instead of Harris in respect to Gaza? It’s entirely because of Harris’ Campaign that has not deviated from Biden. People, especially people directly affected such having loved ones killed during this genocide, want a change. However Harris has not indicated any chance from the current Biden Administration on this issue. Trump successfully framed himself as a Dove and Hillary as a warmonger in 2016. He’s using that same tactic now. It would be a completely unsuccessful framing if Harris pivoted to Arms Embargo or Conditional Aid, but that has not happened.
I consider the blame to be entirely on the Democratic Administration and Harris’ Campaign Strategy. They have had every opportunity to change course, and them deciding not to may very well cost them the election. I will not blame anti-genocide voters, especially those who are directly affected and have lost loved ones. That said, I’m still voting for Harris, on the basis that change from public pressure is far more unlikely under Trump, and think everyone else should too.
“First they came for the communists…”
Stay safe. Keep your head down.
It absolutely would be a brilliant tactical move to take a stance against Netanyahu in a serious manner. There are a lot of liberal voters who won’t participate in this election because they feel unrepresented.
Are these liberal voters correct to sit out the election? No they’re fucking idiots… but tempting them to vote would bring a lot more people to the voting booth than trying to capture more moderates.
Yep, and scare away Jews that are already drifting from the Dems because of antisemitism. Totes, good call.
Anti-zionism is not antisemitism.
Don’t tell me. Tell the Jews who were interviewed for those articles.
beside being the right thing to do, the jewish voters in favour of israel’s genocide are voting for trump anyway. that’s why trump is making these kind of statements to appease them.
rn she is likely to go down as only candidate in our history to loose because she couldn’t stop supporting a genocide.
No it wouldn’t.
Are you sure that the Jews there who support the continuation of the war aren’t already voting Trump? Cause if they are she might not lose it.
In all likelihood you’re probably right, but it all depends what the voting intentions are in and what proportion of the voters they comprise in each state.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/22/politics/jewish-voters-pennsylvania-election/index.html
https://www.jewishexponent.com/in-pennsylvania-the-jewish-vote-matters/
They are already wavering because of antisemitism. Kiss them all goodbye if we turn on Israel and potentially trigger more strikes by Iran.
Okay so they get to pressure Kamala with their votes but the Pro-Palestenian people can’t? Pretty hypocritical.
They can and do. And the others can and do. But now she either loses Pennsylvania or Michigan by pissing one of them off. Michigan has 15 electoral votes, and Pennsylvania 19.
Do the math.
Who do you think there are more of? Which group do you think has a stronger lobbying presence? I mean, seriously, do any of you actually understand how politics works in my country?
So the smaller group has to capitulate to the larger group every time? You think that’s how political power works? That’s not how the smaller group gets political power. It’s through using the leverage hrye have to force compromise from the larger group if they want to win. The same thing smaller parties do in coalition systems.
In order to stop the genocide we need to vote in the people who will destroy the country and commit even more genocide, in the hopes the wreckage of the country can be salvaged into something better. I’m comfortable making this choice, because the extra genocide will only be happening to other people, not to people like me who look just like them over here in the states.
I’ve actually heard on two occasions now from the ‘don’t vote for Kamala’ people that more genocide does not make things worse because you can’t get worse than what is happening now.
Which- yes you absolutely can.
(Then again, I saw someone a few days ago say that Israel is worse than the Nazis by the reasoning that the Nazis were orderly about their genocide.)
They don’t usually write it so literally, that’s rare. They usually just pretend than any amount of evil is equally evil.
It was rare. They’re getting more brazen because they are realizing the “vote third party but it doesn’t matter which candidate to teach them a lesson” concept isn’t especially compelling.
The absolutely trash argument I’ve gotten is usually… “Less genocide is still genocide.” and then them advocating for taking an action that’s likely to cause more genocide.
This is one topic where people taking a “principled stand” are just fucking idiots.
Yep. I’ve seen that one too. “Less genocide is still genocide.” Which implies that an additional two genocides of brown and queer people don’t deserve to be counted.
