Most of China, and for the matter, the USSRs economic, and supply woes were due to incompetence. People who did not understand how things, like farming, worked, forced farmers to do things that the farm laborers, you know, the proletariat knew wouldn’t work. They absolutely destroyed a huge portion of their agricultural base with inept initiatives, informed by a lot of pseudoscience, primarily Lysenkoism. No, I am not saying the USSR intentionally starved Ukraine, or that Mao weaponized starvation. They implemented Lysenkoism, by force (an authoritarian action), it was pseudoscience, it, and a litany other stupid moves, they implemented by, again, force (you know, authoritarianism), ended up causing multiple great famines, killing tens of millions. The reason such pseudoscience was able to take control, in the way that it did, was because of the practices of party favoritism/elitism. Lysenko was an ardent communist, not some reactionary scientist telling us things we don’t want to hear. Their centrally planned economy was also fed full of bullshit, in a similar manner. This lead to extreme inefficiency, stagnation, and widespread poverty. It was not until the implementation of the open door policy, created in cooperation with foreign interests, primarily the US, in 1978 that this began to change. Once they opened regional centers, to operate industry under a capitalist market system, they saw almost immediate improvement in many facets of their economy. Though it was rocky at first, the long term picture was one of growth. After just over a decade of development, China’s economy really began to boom.
This has led to all the problems capitalism has wrought upon other countries. Their wealth disparity is enormous, and growing. The billionaire class is having more, and more influence over CCP decision making (billionaires currently occupy just over 100 seats on the CCP parliament, seeing rather consistent growth) despite purging the occasional “upity” CEO. (see Bao Fan, Jack Ma, Rhen, etc). This had led to flight of wealth, and a growing resurgence of brain drain. This assertion of control, through violence, is actually proving to be one of the, suspected (by Chinese economy experts) to be a major factor in recent slowing in GDP. Though it was impossible to maintain that growth, so how much of it is natural, and how much is not, is debated, though widely agreed it is has had a major impact. This has lead to strife within the CCP. There is no unified consensus on how exactly how this will play out, or whether or not Xi’s policy will be moved away from, as it affects the wealth of the CCP members, its self. Also, the extreme wealth disparity, culture of their market, and numerous other factors, with great consternation, of the public, over the slowing of growth, is leading to less, and less, coherence within the citizens. There is whole a lot going on, like literally 100s of thousands of pages of data and studies on the subject out there. Too much for me to concern myself with here, though I will leave some links below.
The borders thing. Yeah, the “west” established its self first, so it is, of course, reacting to the growing strength of China, and its influence over the region. China is also reacting to these established boarders, trade routes, etc. with their own expansion in mind. I do not see this as China simply bullying everyone around them, nor do I see it simply as China being a victim of being surrounded to previously established nations, and their operations. Both parties are pushing their strength where they can. If NATOs military infrastructure recedes from its SEA, and east asian allies’ areas, China will continue to push its borders on those places. Looking at the history of literally every major power in history, I do not believe, for one second, China will voluntarily hold back from imperial expansionism, if it comes to a situation where it can. The USSR took everything around it the moment it could, in the aftermath of WW2, and I expect nothing less from any other nation who is given the opportunity. Their expansionism can very well be seen with the BRI. It is wrought with corruption, graft, extortionate lending practices, etc. While some nations, primarily in Africa, still prefer working with the BRI, to similar economic cooperatives with the EU, and NAFTA countries, there is a growing disdain for it too. A lot of places are really starting to see that it is just China’s version of western economic control, as China gets control over more, and more, of their wealth.
I don’t have the time or energy to pick apart every bit of nonsense, but this one is annoying me so…
They absolutely destroyed a huge portion of their agricultural base with inept initiatives […] ended up causing multiple great famines.
Not multiple: one each in the USSR and China. And these were the last famines, after centuries of famines being a common occurrence in Tzarist Russia and Imperial China. These two famines happened during droughts that occurred not long after revolutionary wars that upended the countries—hardly ideal conditions. The USSR and Communist China ended the famines.
Never said that scientists weren’t leaving the US. And I did say that China created massive economic growth, I am aware that they were able to pull 800mm people out of poverty, with capitalism. Also never said I thought China was going to collapse. It is also easy to look up the people on Chinese parliament and see who they happen to be, btw. You can do it yourself, but I know you hate engaging with data, and actual research. What you have formed as your reality is all of reality. Also, outside of the chinese scientists that cold war fear-mongering are driving out, the US is, over all, gaining scientists, and in many fields, in STEM in general, the US actually has a glut of PHDs. Also, a lot of the lack of educated professionals, claimed by places like tech corps, is questionable, at best. Much of that is capitalists creating a false scarcity, for numerous reasons. I could post data about that, but, since the CCP didn’t publish it, I guess it isn’t real.
So, not only do you have to fall back on a fallacy, but you have to create a whole narrative of things I never said, nor implied. You did the reactionary thing, where you hear something you don’t like, and automatically create a whole dialogue, that never happened, in your head, to secure your position.
I am aware that they were able top pull 800mm people out of poverty, with capitalism.
This is definitely true: they took advantage of foreign capitalists to help them quickly develop their productive forces and catapult themselves from a nation of illiterate agrarian serfs to one of the most technologically advanced states with the world’s largest productive capacity. The crucial point is that the Communist party did this with eyes wide open, and never allowed the foreign or domestic capitalists wrest control of the state. This is evidenced by the state recently popping the real estate bubble and leaving capitalists to eat their losses.
“We must adhere, to the very end, the belief that housing is for living in, not for speculation,” China’s Housing and Urban-Rural Development Minister Ni Hong said at a press briefing in Beijing on Saturday. “The government guarantees basic housing needs […].”
You literally reference the “US Army War College” as a legitimate source on BRI? Belfercenter on China? Yale? Carnegie endowment? This is the most plain-faced assertion of blatant propagandistic drivel. That’s also ignoring your bold-faced lies about how well the USSR functioned, and again, you act an authority on Marxism despite not having any clue about it. This is pathetic.
Surely you can find a non-US State Department source? And the June 4th incident absolutely happened, just not on the Square itself, but in the surrounding areas, which funnily enough is also what the CPC says happened.
By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy.
Most of China, and for the matter, the USSRs economic, and supply woes were due to incompetence. People who did not understand how things, like farming, worked, forced farmers to do things that the farm laborers, you know, the proletariat knew wouldn’t work. They absolutely destroyed a huge portion of their agricultural base with inept initiatives, informed by a lot of pseudoscience, primarily Lysenkoism. No, I am not saying the USSR intentionally starved Ukraine, or that Mao weaponized starvation. They implemented Lysenkoism, by force (an authoritarian action), it was pseudoscience, it, and a litany other stupid moves, they implemented by, again, force (you know, authoritarianism), ended up causing multiple great famines, killing tens of millions. The reason such pseudoscience was able to take control, in the way that it did, was because of the practices of party favoritism/elitism. Lysenko was an ardent communist, not some reactionary scientist telling us things we don’t want to hear. Their centrally planned economy was also fed full of bullshit, in a similar manner. This lead to extreme inefficiency, stagnation, and widespread poverty. It was not until the implementation of the open door policy, created in cooperation with foreign interests, primarily the US, in 1978 that this began to change. Once they opened regional centers, to operate industry under a capitalist market system, they saw almost immediate improvement in many facets of their economy. Though it was rocky at first, the long term picture was one of growth. After just over a decade of development, China’s economy really began to boom.
This has led to all the problems capitalism has wrought upon other countries. Their wealth disparity is enormous, and growing. The billionaire class is having more, and more influence over CCP decision making (billionaires currently occupy just over 100 seats on the CCP parliament, seeing rather consistent growth) despite purging the occasional “upity” CEO. (see Bao Fan, Jack Ma, Rhen, etc). This had led to flight of wealth, and a growing resurgence of brain drain. This assertion of control, through violence, is actually proving to be one of the, suspected (by Chinese economy experts) to be a major factor in recent slowing in GDP. Though it was impossible to maintain that growth, so how much of it is natural, and how much is not, is debated, though widely agreed it is has had a major impact. This has lead to strife within the CCP. There is no unified consensus on how exactly how this will play out, or whether or not Xi’s policy will be moved away from, as it affects the wealth of the CCP members, its self. Also, the extreme wealth disparity, culture of their market, and numerous other factors, with great consternation, of the public, over the slowing of growth, is leading to less, and less, coherence within the citizens. There is whole a lot going on, like literally 100s of thousands of pages of data and studies on the subject out there. Too much for me to concern myself with here, though I will leave some links below.
The borders thing. Yeah, the “west” established its self first, so it is, of course, reacting to the growing strength of China, and its influence over the region. China is also reacting to these established boarders, trade routes, etc. with their own expansion in mind. I do not see this as China simply bullying everyone around them, nor do I see it simply as China being a victim of being surrounded to previously established nations, and their operations. Both parties are pushing their strength where they can. If NATOs military infrastructure recedes from its SEA, and east asian allies’ areas, China will continue to push its borders on those places. Looking at the history of literally every major power in history, I do not believe, for one second, China will voluntarily hold back from imperial expansionism, if it comes to a situation where it can. The USSR took everything around it the moment it could, in the aftermath of WW2, and I expect nothing less from any other nation who is given the opportunity. Their expansionism can very well be seen with the BRI. It is wrought with corruption, graft, extortionate lending practices, etc. While some nations, primarily in Africa, still prefer working with the BRI, to similar economic cooperatives with the EU, and NAFTA countries, there is a growing disdain for it too. A lot of places are really starting to see that it is just China’s version of western economic control, as China gets control over more, and more, of their wealth.
https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/study-links-35-percent-of-chinese-belt-and-road-initiative-projects-to-scandals-involving-corruption-environmental-problems-labour-violations/
https://www.hudson.org/global-economy/china-insider-millionaires-flee-china-ccp-money-floods-us-universities-doping
https://asiasociety.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/ASPI_CCA_EconSlowdown_EcoRdtable_paper rev.pdf
https://rhg.com/research/no-quick-fixes-chinas-long-term-consumption-growth/
https://www.jri.co.jp/english/periodical/rim/1999/RIMe199904threereforms/
https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RL33534.html
https://www.jri.co.jp/english/periodical/rim/1999/RIMe199904threereforms/
https://www.state.gov/briefings-foreign-press-centers/global-implications-of-china-economic-expansion
https://ceias.eu/understanding-the-implications-of-chinas-economic-slowdown/
https://publications.armywarcollege.edu/News/Display/Article/3789926/what-american-policymakers-misunderstand-about-the-belt-and-road-initiative/
https://www.ncuscr.org/podcast/chinas-slowing-economy/
https://now.tufts.edu/2023/11/20/why-chinas-economy-slowing-down
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/xis-power-grab-gives-a-short-term-boost-with-long-term-ramifications/
https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/epdf/10.1142/S1013251123400052
https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/chinas-21st-century-aspirational-empire
https://macmillan.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Victor Louzon.pdf
https://carnegieendowment.org/posts/2020/05/china-has-two-paths-to-global-domination?lang=en
I don’t have the time or energy to pick apart every bit of nonsense, but this one is annoying me so…
Not multiple: one each in the USSR and China. And these were the last famines, after centuries of famines being a common occurrence in Tzarist Russia and Imperial China. These two famines happened during droughts that occurred not long after revolutionary wars that upended the countries—hardly ideal conditions. The USSR and Communist China ended the famines.
Wow, that’s a lot of gish gallop nonsense from Western bourgeois sources with a vested interest in smearing the threat of a good example.
So we’re just making random shit up?
Not very much, given China’s capital controls, but I’m sure a few gusanos will find a way. Certainly not enough to be a problem, and in any case, the Chinese state has fiat monetary sovereignty.
Helping 800 Million People Escape Poverty Was Greatest Such Effort in History, Says [UN] Secretary-General, on Seventieth Anniversary of China’s Founding.
Making up more random stuff 😂 The exact opposite is happening. Foreign Policy: Chinese Scientists Are Leaving the United States
You have drunk ALL the Kool-Aid.
Never said that scientists weren’t leaving the US. And I did say that China created massive economic growth, I am aware that they were able to pull 800mm people out of poverty, with capitalism. Also never said I thought China was going to collapse. It is also easy to look up the people on Chinese parliament and see who they happen to be, btw. You can do it yourself, but I know you hate engaging with data, and actual research. What you have formed as your reality is all of reality. Also, outside of the chinese scientists that cold war fear-mongering are driving out, the US is, over all, gaining scientists, and in many fields, in STEM in general, the US actually has a glut of PHDs. Also, a lot of the lack of educated professionals, claimed by places like tech corps, is questionable, at best. Much of that is capitalists creating a false scarcity, for numerous reasons. I could post data about that, but, since the CCP didn’t publish it, I guess it isn’t real.
So, not only do you have to fall back on a fallacy, but you have to create a whole narrative of things I never said, nor implied. You did the reactionary thing, where you hear something you don’t like, and automatically create a whole dialogue, that never happened, in your head, to secure your position.
This is definitely true: they took advantage of foreign capitalists to help them quickly develop their productive forces and catapult themselves from a nation of illiterate agrarian serfs to one of the most technologically advanced states with the world’s largest productive capacity. The crucial point is that the Communist party did this with eyes wide open, and never allowed the foreign or domestic capitalists wrest control of the state. This is evidenced by the state recently popping the real estate bubble and leaving capitalists to eat their losses.
.
In contrast, in 2008 the US government saved the banks that had handed out known-bad mortgages, sacrificing the homeowners who’d been given those known-to-be-unpayable loans.
You literally reference the “US Army War College” as a legitimate source on BRI? Belfercenter on China? Yale? Carnegie endowment? This is the most plain-faced assertion of blatant propagandistic drivel. That’s also ignoring your bold-faced lies about how well the USSR functioned, and again, you act an authority on Marxism despite not having any clue about it. This is pathetic.
Removed by mod
🙄
@[email protected] has covered this any number of times. Most recently: https://lemmy.ml/post/20412168/13993208
links 4 u
Surely you can find a non-US State Department source? And the June 4th incident absolutely happened, just not on the Square itself, but in the surrounding areas, which funnily enough is also what the CPC says happened.
By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy.