Figured I’d share this since I saw it.
The nostr relay thing does seem a bit… off to me. Not sure what really makes nostr better than here… Unless what we really want is a twitter experiance. Which I, of course, do not.
I don’t think they understand how nostr works
I think it’s a little better understood now (this post was linked to)
I haven’t run any nostr clients, but I did look at it – and think it’s likely MORE prone to censorship than the fediverse
No it’s not. At least in the following way, If you want to hear someone you may. That’s the difference. In the fediverse if a admin does not want you to hear someone else they can block that person on your behalf. In nostr they can’t. As long as one relay exist that carries that persons data you can get it.
Can filters censor? Yes, but you can turn them off. Switch clients, switch relays. ect.
If I remember that comment right, wasn’t it more about government takedown of central authorities? Nodes, in this case?
If other powers gain control of the node, what happens?
To be fair, I haven’t studied how nodes even work, but I suspect some will get large enough to self-destruct the whole point. Like lemmy.world, where they seem to ban and block at a whim, unless it’s pedo stuff. That shit stays.
If I remember that comment right, wasn’t it more about government takedown of central authorities? Nodes, in this case?
If other powers gain control of the node, what happens?
two points on this.
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The fediverse has nodes too. But they own identities where nostr nodes do not. However, activity pub also relies on domain name resolution. Nostr does not. so nostr is more decentralized in that regard.
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Because internet is a common carrier that has government funding in the united states they get free speech protection. So you can host it in your house and it won’t be seized. It’s just a ip address.
You could even host a relay from your phone.
To be fair, I haven’t studied how nodes even work, but I suspect some will get large enough to self-destruct the whole point. Like lemmy.world, where they seem to ban and block at a whim, unless it’s pedo stuff. That shit stays.
So there will likely always be a couple really large relays everyone uses. But users always use more than one. And data is copied to all of your relays when you post. When one goes down everyone will just shuffle over it’s not a big deal. When lemmy.world goes down lots of stuff will be lost forever. Everyone’s communities will be orphaned. Accounts gone. ect.
There is no private data on the relays. I can give you a copy of my relay database right now and it’s no big deal.
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Oh, I’m in no way defending fediverse. It’s neat, technically, but it’s ripe for abuse from inside and out. As for DNS, I wonder if there’s a reasonable way to get around that for ActivityPub.
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Okay, that’s neat. I should look into this indepth. I’m currious how data is copied around without overloading nodes. It seems like it may also have the problem of some people don’t see some comments on a specific post, which leads to confusing conversations, but I haven’t run into that yet as I have on Mastodon. But with Mastondon is was a matter of instances being blocked, this just seems like we may be missing parts of the conversation, kinda like on SSB if there are two groups of people who only have some of the data.
EDIT: My post counts from 1. to 2., but I wrote 1. and then 3… Whatever. The second part is ment to target the end of your reply.
I’m currious how data is copied around without overloading nodes. It seems like it may also have the problem of some people don’t see some comments on a specific post, which leads to confusing conversations
I don’t fully understand how all that works. I know there is some nips about finding out where users usually post stuff too. But i have noticed in some clients i’ll see stuff in chat thats not in other’s because the relays are different.
That is just the trade off you get for decentralization though
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Also the comments about interaction is silly. I get the best troll interaction by making a alt and posting trump memes on Lemmy world. Ican do that infinite times. I want to use nostr because if I want to hear someone a admin cannot stop me.
Blue Dwarf is a nice little forum, glad you found it
yeah idk if the move solves the problem, I was thinking about this a little and it seems people need to somehow be incentivized to talk to each other even if they disagree on things, not sure how to accomplish this
on neutral things it may be mutually beneficial to cooperate, like on discussing solutions to math problems which then could be used for a computer application everyone can use
I was thinking about this a little and it seems people need to somehow be incentivized to talk to each other even if they disagree on things, not sure how to accomplish this
I actually think the tipping mechanism in nostr helps. It’s so easy to send someone penny’s people will start paying others to say nice things and that will attract more participation. But that could be used on any platform. What nostr solves is decentralized identities which solves deplatforming issues. The fediverse doesn’t have any solutions to de-platforming. Because it never tried to solve that problem. When people realize that on both facebook and the fediverse when they are banned they lose all their followers but on nostr they don’t I think they will understand the value of spending your time on nostr instead of the fediverse. Why would I invest years posting on a platform that can take away all my followers at a whim when I can instead do it on a platform where no one can? From a user’s perspective nostr just destroys activity pub. From the perspective of someone wanting to control narrative it’s a nightmare.
I actually think the tipping mechanism in nostr helps. It’s so easy to send someone penny’s people will start paying others to say nice things and that will attract more participation.
I know there are people like that, but that just feels weird to me. I get it for content creation (art, music, code, video, etc) or other things where people have to put in time and effort or provide a community service but have costs to offset. But literally paying someone based on what they say just feels alien to me. Maybe cuz I can’t think of it in terms of IRL interaction without imagining someone paying people to be friends with them.
I agree that the deplatforming concepts in nostr seem to have the right idea or at least are actually trying to solve that unlike fediverse.
Accessibility and UI/UX hopefully they will catch up on soon but I worry about the network effort though. Even for fediverse, compared to Twitter/Reddit/Facebook Fediverse traffic is a drop in the ocean. Nostr seems to be a drop compared to Fediverse traffic currently. Not saying to drop them cuz they don’t have numbers or anything. Just that I worry about things like low-adoption leading to eventual stagnation of development and more isolation in terms of thoughts/ideas (cz less people).
I know there are people like that, but that just feels weird to me. I get it for content creation (art, music, code, video, etc) or other things where people have to put in time and effort or provide a community service but have costs to offset. But literally paying someone based on what they say just feels alien to me. Maybe cuz I can’t think of it in terms of IRL interaction without imagining someone paying people to be friends with them.
I get so excited with someone sends me 3 cents. I know i’ll never use it most likely but I mean, you post lots of quality memes. To me it makes sense that people who enjoy it and want it to continue should start tipping.
I like to think of it less as a culture of paying to talk to someone and more of a culture of giving and celebrating each other and prosperity. As apposed to a communist fediverse where everyone complains about billionaires.
I’m not sure how much tipping helps. Do we have an evidence of it working before for a social network of sorts? I suppose there’s twitch subs, superchats, and podcast 2.0 type things that seem to be working, but the traction really isn’t there.
Well, and cam whores, but I don’t think money people spend on sex translates well to other things.
Do we have an evidence of it working before for a social network of sorts?
If you think about it it helps drastically in content creation. Patreon and subscribe star have created whole businesses off the idea. If you get a little money for posting you will be more likely to post. That’s why twitter is trying to bribe people to stay by paying top posters with money people have spent signing up for xeeter premium.
Yea, it’s true that locals, rumble, and the one’s you mention support content creators.
I was thinking on a smaller scale. Like, if I send you cash for a pleasant discussion rather than I send someone cash who is trying to appeal to be a content creator specifically for income.
It like directly goes to your nervous system. We are hard wired to repeat behavior that has rewards.
True, but often times, when we do something a lot of people enjoy, it’s a chance happening. Unless we’re hyperfocused on the point of making money in the first place, like designer bands and the like.
As for the deplatforming issues, I’d prefer carring my identity to various places.
In the lemmy case it’s rough because they ban instances and identities are tied to instances.
If they have to kick me out, that’s fine, I’ll take my ID an go elsewhere. Same as if I enter a bar, start some fights, and I get banned.I just go to another bar and, if I have a following, they can go to. Not only can they go, they aren’t banned from visiting the old bar again.
If people followed identites, rather than identities of an instance, we may have a solution. Which is why I like SSB, and, if I understand how it works correctly, why I wanted to like nostr.
The fediverse almost does this. I’d like to fire up my own pleroma identity, for example, and then vist other instances of the various parts of the fediverse and check them out, but I’m pretty sure I have to host all the data I view, which is not ideal.
If people followed identites, rather than identities of an instance
That is exactly how nostr works. And is the main selling point of it. You request a public key from any relay and if that relay has it’s data and is willing to share it you get it. Simple.
The fediverse almost does this. I
The fediverse does not do this at all. I’m not sure where you are getting at. They own your identity. Identities in the fediverse are 100% centralized.
Well, the idea that I can create my own pleroma instance, create an identity, and then go check out noagenda or whoever else’s mastondon’s and the like.
Even peertube iirc. Possibly diaspora?
At that point, blocking me or the instance is the same thing since I’d be the only one on the instance. However, these instances are a bit of pain to setup for the average person, especially if the only point is to create an idenity since that thousands of other people are willing to do it for you.
But yea, that’s why I want to like nostr, mehbe someday a different client will work out for me, but with the way this stuff work out…It’s usually not what Iwant.
Well, the idea that I can create my own pleroma instance, create an identity, and then go check out noagenda or whoever
I keep seeing this an as argument for the fediverse. But it really is not and i’ll tell you why.
If everyone who used the fediverse hosted their own instance they would indeed have decentralized identities.
But they don’t.
So in your example, yes you can create your instance and your identity will be separate from noagenda social. But what happens when noagenda social bans you?
Every single user on no agenda social is banned from seeing you.
But yea, that’s why I want to like nostr, mehbe someday a different client
This is fair. And i’m not married to nostr. I believe though in a year or two we should have a pretty solid solution. It’s an ok mastodon and twitter alternative for now. Uses a lot of data though.
Yep, you’ve convinced me to give it another chance. I really should try out other clients, but android is what I usually use for reading, entertainment, etc… I have plenty of other computers though, I have no excuse.
I wonder if there is a way to change a private key. Say, mine gets compromised, without creating a new account.
No private keys are sacred in nostr. Just like Bitcoin. You lose it you have to tell all your followers to re follow the new public key .
If they have to kick me out, that’s fine, I’ll take my ID an go elsewhere. Same as if I enter a bar, start some fights, and I get banned.I just go to another bar and, if I have a following, they can go to. Not only can they go, they aren’t banned from visiting the old bar again.
don’t disagree with the mentality but part of the problem I see with this is that a lot of lemmy instances start to make it harder to get in (email, approval process, etc). beecuck is probably the worst offender in this department but there are plenty of others that aren’t just trying to prevent spambots but also want to limit who can get into the community.
point being that as the onboard process becomes more and more of a pain in the ass, it is harder to justify time spent getting in vs the small moment of joy trolling trannyfags etc before getting banned and having to repeat. similar thing on reddit - easy to make a new throwaway but the karma bs basically restricts you from posting most places and it takes too much effort so level of effort required before you can troll isn’t worth it.
to use the bar analogy, if you had to pay an entry fee and wait in line a half hour to get in for every bar, it would get annoying to get throw out after a few times.
Lemmy world is probably the best place to troll right now. It has a very low bar of entry. You can use a fake email to sign up. Immediately start posting images in comments. You’ll get banned but not before getting lots of soyboys super angry.
Nostr is going to have anti trolling measures. Already people have it set to where they ignore comments from people not in their circle of friends. Just as a spam reduction technique.
If trolling libtards is your thing, right now the fediverse is perfect. Like, i’m surprised no one has made whole websites dedicated to it. A few months ago one of those libtard journalist Taylor Lorenz signed up on mastodon and had thousands of antisemetic replies on her first post. She’s Jewish. stuff like,
“The holocaust never happened but it should have”
I think she cried.
yesterday I posted a bunch of rage inducing graphs on lemmy world’s feminist forums and it took them like 8 hours to ban me. Not before getting hundreds of downvotes. Stuff about being childless and being depressed.
To me that isn’t really what digital freedom is about. Even if it’s really funny. I don’t want anyone telling me who I can listen to. It’s morally reprehensible. The technology should allow users to block trolls though. Just from a engineering perspective.
