As the AI market continues to balloon, experts are warning that its VC-driven rise is eerily similar to that of the dot com bubble.

  • Platomus@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    The only way for someone to make money in crypto is for someone else to lose it.

    Crypto is a scam.

    • higgs@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      So what’s the difference to money, stocks or every other investing option? There’s has to be someone who loses so someone different can win. We’re living in a capitalistic system, that’s how it works.

      • bigschnitz@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Money isn’t an investment, it’s a currency. Of course it’s a bad investment and investing in forex is barely a better investment than crypto (purely because there’s less risk of a sovereign currency devaluing to 0).

        Investing in capital, like stocks, property, equipment etc does not require someone to lose money for the capital owner to profit. If I invest in a stock, each year I’m paid a dividend based on the profits of that organisation - no losers required. I could later sell that stock at the exact price I paid for it and come away with profit from those dividends. What determines whether it’s a good or bad investment, is the ratio of profit to the capital owner compared to cost of the asset. Crypto generates 0 profit, so it has 0 value as a capital investment.

      • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Stocks pay dividends to their share holders. Stocks also represent portions of companies that make other things.

        Basically you’re saying that crypto is like a shitty stock that doesn’t pay dividends, doesn’t generate a profit, makes nothing, is not actually valuable, and is only worth what you can sucker someone else into paying for it. I agree.

        But I also wouldn’t invest in such a stock.

    • Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      How is distributed ledger a scam? It’s nothing new and we know exactly how it works. It has nothing to do with making money. If I use it to pay for things online how am I getting scammed? I’m sorry, but it seems you don’t fully understand what this technology is.

      • TurtleJoe@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        The blazing fast technology that allows for up to 7 transactions a second worldwide? Amazing.

        Don’t forget to pay your capital gains tax when you sell your butts online to buy your pizza.

        • Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          The slow transaction speed is a valid criticism, but it doesn’t make this technology a scam. Different cryptocurrencies have different speeds. With Litecoin I think it takes me 40 minutes to pay for something. I still prefer that over being tracked by my bank or having to use PayPal. I think you can pay instantly with Dash, but I haven’t used it.

          I don’t sell anything online, so what are you talking about?

          • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            having to use PayPal

            I don’t think you’ll find most people have such a vendetta against PayPal or venmo that they’ll use some other alternative banking system to avoid using it.

            • Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I don’t think you’ll find most people have such a vendetta against PayPal or venmo that they’ll use some other alternative banking system to avoid using it.

              You might be right about that, but why would it matter what most people do?

              That’s not a feature… especially if it’s worse than PayPal.

              It offers better privacy than PayPal and that’s what matters to me. Oh and nobody can lock me out of my account.

          • ZodiacSF1969@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            I think people are using the word scam not in it’s strictest sense - that is to say, I don’t think Satoshi personally invented BTC to defraud everyone who bought it so in that sense, no, it is not a scam technically. A better way to describe it would be via the greater fool theory: the only way to make money is to find someone even more foolish than yourself to buy it.

            Crypto as it is currently implemented is inefficient, riddled with problems, and is deflationary which you can argue about but most economists would say deflationary currencies are bad as they lead to shrinking economies and do not encourage investment.

            There also aren’t that many problems that it ‘solves’ that aren’t already solvable by existing tech. And even in the case of things it’s useful for, if it were to be widely adopted the ‘benefits’ would be overshadowed by the massive new problems that would be created.

            I think crypto will always have a niche, especially for black markers. I don’t think anything similar to currently existing crypto currencies will ever be adopted for widespread use as legal tender.

            And as the other commenter pointed out, the tax situation is a nightmare. Even if you don’t sell online yourself, that’s a big hurdle to crypto achieving what many supporters claim it can do.

            • Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              A better way to describe it would be via the greater fool theory: the only way to make money is to find someone even more foolish than yourself to buy it.

              Cryptocurrency is not about making money. It’s a distributed ledger. Technology like that could maybe be a scam if it didn’t do what its creators claim it does. But it’s been around for a long time and we know exactly how it works.

              Crypto as it is currently implemented is inefficient, riddled with problems, and is deflationary which you can argue about but most economists would say deflationary currencies are bad as they lead to shrinking economies and do not encourage investment.

              It has problems, but like every technology it keeps improving. I choose to use it despite its flaws and will probably use it even more in the future.

              There also aren’t that many problems that it ‘solves’ that aren’t already solvable by existing tech.

              It gives me privacy and anonymity when paying online. No other online payment technology does. It also doesn’t require trust, since it’s decentralized. I’m not aware of any other technology that solves those problems.

              I think crypto will always have a niche, especially for black markers. I don’t think anything similar to currently existing crypto currencies will ever be adopted for widespread use as legal tender.

              That’s possible, but over time it is accepted by more and more stores. So it keeps growing. But even if it didn’t, you can use crypto to buy gift cards for any store. It doesn’t have to be popular.

              And as the other commenter pointed out, the tax situation is a nightmare. Even if you don’t sell online yourself, that’s a big hurdle to crypto achieving what many supporters claim it can do.

              When someone wants to invest in crypto, I can see how that could be a problem. I just use it to pay for things online.

              • ZodiacSF1969@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                Cryptocurrency is not about making money. It’s a distributed ledger. Technology like that could maybe be a scam if it didn’t do what its creators claim it does. But it’s been around for a long time and we know exactly how it works.

                I would venture that the majority of people see it as an investment of one sort or another. I think the insane market cap, and the devestating effect the recent crash had on its reputation and use, are evidence of that.

                It has problems, but like every technology it keeps improving. I choose to use it despite its flaws and will probably use it even more in the future.

                Most cryptos have fundamental problems that I don’t see being fixed, eg it’s deflationary properties, BTC’s wasteful PoW, ETH skirting/crossing the boundary of being a security, etc.

                It gives me privacy and anonymity when paying online. No other online payment technology does. It also doesn’t require trust, since it’s decentralized. I’m not aware of any other technology that solves those problems.

                This is like the one thing they are good for, and Monero is the best at it. This is an arguable point though, others may say that this is a negative due to the implications and governments have cracked down on privacy enhancing tools like Tornado Cash for this reason. I personally value privacy to an extent, but do not see the need in my life to use Monero. I certainly wouldn’t fault you for using it, though.

                That’s possible, but over time it is accepted by more and more stores. So it keeps growing. But even if it didn’t, you can use crypto to buy gift cards for any store. It doesn’t have to be popular.

                I think adoption has stagnated. And look at El Salvador, they basically had to force crypto on the populace and they use their own proprietary wallet, nullifying privacy benefits. And again, it is treated as an investment by the government there who are buying BTC to speculate.

                When someone wants to invest in crypto, I can see how that could be a problem. I just use it to pay for things online.

                Yeh this is dependant on your country. Here in Australia every crypto transaction is a capital gains event 🙄

                • Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I would venture that the majority of people see it as an investment of one sort or another. I think the insane market cap, and the devestating effect the recent crash had on its reputation and use, are evidence of that.

                  You are right, but it doesn’t matter what most people think. I mean we should educate them about it, but their opinion is irrelevant.

                  Most cryptos have fundamental problems that I don’t see being fixed, eg it’s deflationary properties, BTC’s wasteful PoW, ETH skirting/crossing the boundary of being a security, etc.

                  Etherum has already switched from proof of work algorithm to less wasteful proof of stake. So it seems that at least that problem can be solved.

                  This is like the one thing they are good for, and Monero is the best at it. This is an arguable point though, others may say that this is a negative due to the implications and governments have cracked down on privacy enhancing tools like Tornado Cash for this reason. I personally value privacy to an extent, but do not see the need in my life to use Monero. I certainly wouldn’t fault you for using it, though.

                  You should be able to buy any of the popular cryptocurrencies anonymously. They won’t make your payment history private like Monero does, but you will still be anonymous when paying.

                  I think adoption has stagnated. And look at El Salvador, they basically had to force crypto on the populace and they use their own proprietary wallet, nullifying privacy benefits. And again, it is treated as an investment by the government there who are buying BTC to speculate.

                  I don’t know exact stats, but it’s bigger than I expected before I started looking into it. There are a lot of crypto ATMs now in cities, which you can see at https://coinatmradar.com. There are also some stores and restaurants that accept crypto, especially in the US (https://coinmap.org/view). You can also find some online services on https://cryptwerk.com. El Salvador is certainly messed up. Bitcoin probably isn’t even a good choice, because of its big transaction fees. Other cryptocurrencies are faster, can handle more transactions and have smaller fees.

                  Yeh this is dependant on your country. Here in Australia every crypto transaction is a capital gains event 🙄

                  Damn, that’s crazy. So you can’t even buy something without paying an extra tax?