• czech@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Free speech is a delicate principle. It requires everyone to firmly agree that everyone is allowed to speak freely, and we’re all prepared to fight to the death, literally, to defend their right to say it

    What? Says who? This only exists in r/conservative echo chambers. You’re free to say what you want but nobody has to listen.

    The “prepared to fight to the death to defend it” is in reference to the “free speech” that the constitution protects. We literally had a war about it 300 years ago. You can’t have it both ways.

    I’m not saying “no true Scotsman.” I’m saying Mussolini was a legitimate fascist, and his party died a long time ago. Some people today have similar traits, especially on the Left, but nobody is really part of his party anymore.

    I’m saying Trump it the leader of the Conservative party in America and you are saying he’s not a true conservative. It’s the definition of “no true Scotsman”. Stating it’s not doesn’t actually change anything.

    • 10A@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Trump was a life-long Democrat until he switched parties. He’s not a Christian. His personality could hardly be described as “conservative” by anyone. Trump may win the GOP primary again, just because Democrats control the mass media, but he does not represent the voice of conservative Americans, even if we end up voting for him in the general election. He’s a political anomaly, which is why he has a fanbase, but is also why he shouldn’t be a factor in this conversation.

      • czech@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Democrats control the mass media,

        This is delusional. Fox news is the largest “news” organization in America by a wide margin.

        • 10A@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Fox is centrist, but every other mass media outlet is far to the left of them. And Fox publishes whatever gets clicks, including Trump stories.

          • czech@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Fox is only centrist by American conservative standards. The positions they support are considered far-right by most of the developed world outside of the middle-east and china.

            • 10A@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Perhaps — I have no idea about the rest of the world — but Fox serves an American audience, so that’s the context in which it’s appropriate to evaluate it.

              As a conservative, when I look at the Fox News website, I typically think all of the following: A) these stories are notably well-balanced compared to the other mass media outlets, B) man, they publish some really stupid articles on this site, C) Why do the articles all have huge videos that are completely unrelated to the articles on top of them?, and D) Yikes, the comment section sure does feature some openly racist remarks sometimes.

              But outside of Fox, in the US, there are generally two types of news organizations: large-and-leftist and tiny-and-conservative.

              • czech@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                1 year ago

                I have no idea about the rest of the world

                I believe it. What I’m saying is that from your insular experience you wouldn’t realize that what you consider “centrist” is actually “far-right”.

                In reality the largest news organization in America is “far-right” with some smaller extremist-right orgs. What you consider “leftist” is actually “centrist” by developed-nation standards. You can go on calling it what ever you like but it has no basis in reality outside of conservative echo chambers.

                • 10A@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  That can be true or false. I neither know nor care. I’m sorry to be dismissive, and I don’t mean to be rude. You’re just trying to make a point that seems irrelevant to me. I’m sure it’s meaningful to you, but it’s not to me.

                  • czech@kbin.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    No, I get it. You are not going to let facts get in the way of your conclusions. You don’t sound dismissive you seem uninformed. That’s fine and on brand with the positions you’ve shared.

      • danhakimi@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        lol. “He does not represent the voice of conservative Americans. I mean, conservative Americans love him and want to vote for him and boo anybody who wants to run against him, especailly in Republican-party-controlled spaces, but that’s all liberals’ fault, no true conservative likes Trump.”

        also, weird to focus on religion, but: https://web.archive.org/web/20201024120658/https://religionnews.com/2020/10/23/exclusive-trump-confirmed-a-presbyterian-now-identifies-as-non-denominational-christian/