With that price I feel like the dev has 0 faith in lemmy getting very big and feels like they need to capitalize on the currently few users to make back costs. I mean, not even an early access price considering its in beta still
Yeah this feels like early adopter tax. Get your money off people who don’t blink at stuff like $100 for a beta app for a small reddit that’s literally just a front end.
Then lower the price slowly. Like I feel like there are more Lemmy apps than Reddit ones. It’s pretty gauling to charge so much and essentially take everything from server owners by putting this up front for people trying it from Reddit.
Server owners aren’t the only people who are working for free.
There are people that have made skins for Lemmy, do they get paid? Mods as well, not to mention the Lemmy devs and admins. And all of this is nothing without people posting content, are you going to pay them too?
If all one has to do to try and diminish someone asking for a price for their services here is to point out someone else on Lemmy that wants the money too, then everyone looks like a jerk.
Don’t forget, the whole reason Lemmy is so successful these past few months is because the work these devs do wasn’t appreciated on Reddit, and we all came here instead. Are you saying all these redfugees should leave and take their money to X instead?
Server owners aren’t doing this for free. They are doing it at cost. Some of them quite a bit. I genuinely can’t see how you can sincerely equate someone paying thousands of dollars a month to host the infrastructure of Lemmy itself as someone designing a CSS theme in their free time for something that wouldn’t exist without the mentioned instance owners. These aren’t the same. And this is the first form of mainstream monetization to hit Lemmy at any level past donations and it’s aggressive. Childish reply. Someone posting content is not spending a dime but them posting that cost the server hosters one.
So then donate to your server. But denigrating other people on Lemmy for offering highly anticipated services is appalling. Ask for donations in a more appropriate place. My server was swimming in donations and told us to stop donating. Devs adding to the tapestry of options on Lemmy, whether foss or not, don’t deserve to be harassed because you think people’s money should go elsewhere.
He is doing this full time so its hes monthly income.
With that price I feel like the dev has 0 faith in lemmy getting very big
It feels kind of the opposite to me.
Going back and checking my Google account history, I paid $1 for Sync Pro. In 2012. And was using it up until last month. In retrospect, that was far too low a price for the utility I got out of the app for literally years.
If anything, it feels like the dev has learned that lesson and has priced the lifetime option where it’s actually sustainable for them if Lemmy stays around.
I agree. The original price for a lifetime use is maybe a bit too low. The original sync pro prices, but yearly instead, might be a solution. Not monthly. That is so messed up.
Well why not 1usd per month subscription. If 10,20,30 thousand of us subscribed, then he’d have a stable scaling income as the app grows in usage.
Edit. Thousand
I mean, there IS a monthly subscription for $2, so I’m not sure what your point is
The point is, I want a discount. Poor people also want to use Sync.
And before you ask, I’m in a third world country.
Ah. I agree that regional pricing needs to become more of a thing in general. That said, considering there’s a free option in this case it’s not too egregious. Just set up adblocking at the dns level?
There’s also a dozen very good free apps.
But you can use sync for free. That’s why the dev has put options for you. If you cannot pay the ad removal, you can still support the developer by using the app but with ads
Yes but I do not want ads, and I also want to support the dev, yet due to my financial standing am unable to.
Anyways I’ll just have to save up and get the 20% lifetime payment. That way I solve all of these with just one stroke.
you can though for free.
For what it’s worth the dev said today he’s working on regional pricing. Comment here to get your country priced out sooner
The literal opposite. I’m working on this fulltime and giving it everything I can.
And this is why I don’t mind the cost increase from old Sync.
I bought Sync Pro all the way back in 2014, and considering how long it’s been since then, plus the sub-2 month delivery time for Sync for Lemmy, I think you’ve more than earned an ultra sub from me!
Thanks for the hard work.
Hey I just want to say thanks for the app. Used sync regularly back when I used to browse Reddit and it must’ve been the most used app on my phone for years. Sync for Lemmy feels just as good I’ll probably switch to the iap for ad free but for now I took the yearly sub just to throw you some money.
Had been waiting for this since you announced it haha.
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$20 to remove ads on an app I’ll probably use daily seems to be fair price, from my perspective. But the subscription rubs me the wrong way.
For a lifetime price of 40 or 50 I’d probably have just bought it and hoped the dev eventually adds /KBin support. For 110 it’s off the table for me altogether and I’m not a fan of subscriptions.
With that said, I’ve never used this app that I remember on Reddit, so, maybe it is worth it??? I’d probably happily consider a lifetime price of that much if Relay got ported (and basically consider it back pay for getting like 6 or 7 years out of it for like 4 bucks).
It seems like either the dev is planning on the app running forever and wanting to not make the mistake of charging a couple bucks for a forever license OR they don’t expect it to last and need to get as much $ as they can up front. Either way, I wish them the best of luck. Since I’m not a Lemmy user, I won’t be buying, at that price.
“Userbase / 10 THOUSAND” is more like it.
Reddit has 1.6 billion monthly active users, and Lemmy had 62,000 in July.
That’s very cynical point of view. This is for the Ultra version, which incurs recurring cost to the developer for providing extra features which requires running some servers on their side. I myself spent that much just for running a Lemmy server for two months. They still have one time $20 option that don’t include services that require the external servers.
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Come on man, no need to make assumption when the ultra feature are listed there in the app setting. At a glance you can see the ones that are potential money sink are push notifications (money goes to firebase/Google), Google translate (money goes to Google), OCR (money goes to GPU vps providers). The original sync ultra even have restore deleted comments option, which mean they was practically mirror Reddit public dataset. At $17 per year or ~$100 lifetime, it’s very reasonable, which includes paying the dev as well.
I’d like a cheaper version that doesn’t have all those extra services that I wouldn’t use anyway but still gives me the actual app features like tagging etc instead.
Push notifications, I guess
Exactly. Suck the early adopter users dry just in case lemmy doesn’t get huge. I mean, yes there was dev time for this app, but of importing your syncreddit press into this app is any indication, it wasn’t a rewrite but merely an adaptation of API.
This is most definitely the dev seeing how much he can milk early on. Good for him if it works. I mean the app framework is amazing, don’t get me wrong. But not at these prices.
Not milking anything. I want to work on this long term
Okay, well, thanks but it’s too expensive for me. I want to support you but I can’t afford that. I would have paid up immediately if it was closer to the old costs, and have been really happy to do so. I’ve literally been waiting to do that.
Wait, importing what?
You can import your settings over from the old sync for reddit to the new sync for lemmy.
Oh sweet, thank you!
God damn that’s expensive.
Yeah, this Dev seems to be counting on the idea that everyone in lemmy will forget that there are perfectly good free apps out there, and that all the other 3rd party Reddit devs are working on their own lemmy versions.
Been very happy with Connect.
Connect is my daily driver, too. But it feels very unpolished coming from Joey (for Reddit)
I think he’s actually counting on the fact that people will be using this app daily for the next decade, just like they did with Sync for reddit.
Imagine a city with 5 roads leading into it. A 6th road opens, and the builder puts up a toll booth, charging a high amount. Meanwhile 5 additional roads are currently being built leading into the city.
I mean, sure, some fools will pay the toll, but it really looks like the road builder is hoping to capture a clientele that doesn’t know the other roads exist.
I disagree. I think that is an overly simplistic view of the situation.
Some people buy iPhones and Samsung Ultras and whatever else. Some people use the same basic phone they had ten years ago. Both are valid. It’s no different here, if you’re happy with the free stuff then cool, if you want the very best Lemmy app which has had over a decade of development then also cool.
Saying that people are fools because they want to pay for the software they use and have made a value judgement to do so is absurd.
Apollo also had years of development but was totally free with donation options. And imo it was better than Sync.
No offense to Sync though, it was/is still an amazing app.
Sync was a fine Reddit app, but it was never the best. If you want to pay a fortune for mediocrity, enjoy yourself.
He would have had an edge had the released sooner. But now there’s too much free competition.
The free competition sucks though. Liftoff and Thunder are useable but buggy, the rest is rubbish.
I agree, that’s why I paid for ad free. But a lot of other people are very willing to deal with jank, it seems.
Not providing a lifetime purchase at the initial release, then gradually giving 2 updates that disables ads and then ultra permanently, seems like the dev is greedy. Probably that’s why they didn’t have good terms with Reddit in the first place. Who knows.
You’re blaming DEVS for reddit’s shitty behaviour now?
I launched the beta and then added two features based on user feedback.
Way too expensive.
Yeah it is a bit too much.
Lol. I uh. Guess I didn’t want a one time payment option after all.
I’m pretty sure there’s still going to be an ad free one time payment though, Sync ultra has more than just ad free browsing. Personally I only want to remove the ads so if it’s priced like the pro version was then I’ll be happy
It’s $20 USD to just remove ads permanently.
Oof yeah I just saw, that’s a bit pricey for me honestly especially because Lemmy doesn’t really have enough content at the moment to spend a lot of time on…
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The ad-free version is already available für 21,99 €. Not going to lie, I expected the old reddit prices and was going to buy Ultra lifetime for 33 €…
£18.99 is pretty steep.
Wished he’d give us an option to choose some option prices. Feels like a bit of a land grab at that price.
I paid £12.99
How’d you manage that!
That was the price it was when I tried to remove the ads
Bargain!
Where do you find that?
Tap the account switcher in the top left corner, then “remove ads”.
Hmm, not there for me. I subscribed for a month already so maybe that’s why.
There’s an option to remove only ads as well in the profile picker menu. Costs about $25 if my conversion is right, lifetime.
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Sync for Reddit’s Lifetime Ultra was $30. I paid that without thinking. $100 is a big increase.
Plus, I got one year out of the Ultra lifetime for Reddit. This is an even bigger gamble.
I feel the same way. $46 (Canadian) a year ago (August 1) for Sync Ultra. Got less than a year out of it…
Hurts even more that the new ultra has the same name as the old one. It gave me false hope that my old subscription would still be valid.
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There’s still a one-time remove ads/tracking price which is €23 for me, varies by region. The lifetime Sync Ultra is for cloud back-up features, can be ignored.
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There is nothing to argue with. You are bashing a program without any correct facts. Its like watching an anti vaxer demand facts about why the microchips are sterilizing the penguins. It only makes sense in your head.
FYI lifetime Ad free is 12 bucks (20 now). Ultra lifetime is something else entirely.
20 bucks
You’re right. Your local instance deserves that money more so than any app. Maybe if there was a revenue share I could get behind it but not like this.
It would be a logistical nightmare, but I would love a Pay What You Want model with a percentage going to the Lemmy backend developers and a percentage going to your local instance.
You will attract the fanboys base. But, I second this. People should give the same amount of money to an instance before giving to these closed apps. Without the instances, they couldn’t use the apps.
Why assume that people paying for an app haven’t already donated to an instance or two?
I’m not assuming. My point is that the dev has to share the revenues with the instances. Without instances, the app is useless. It’s not the case so users should give the same.
The other point is that a paid third party client adds a layer what makes the instances less visible. This lack of visibility can lower the donation. Also, you will end with one or two people thinking they pay for the app and so for the instances.
A reminder is always good.
All you Sync dick suckers in this thread have lost your minds.
You should head to the discord. People there literally choking on dev’s balls, it’s insane.
Your point is correct. While I love the UX and UI, the data collection is a fucking disgrace. Good thing I know how to block trackers, as I’m going to use a patched version of the app as soon as somebody releases one.
My motto is if an app has ads, the dev must be not that good. Otherwise you’d be able to pay for features because they’d develop features worth paying for.
Glad some people here are pointing that out.
Also, having people pay to remove ads on a ad-free platform is just disgusting misuse of open source generosity.
Instead, try to add something instead of infiltrating it with ads just to make money off.
It is only $12.99 to remove ads; the subscriptions also remove ads, but add extra features that you may not need
Not anymore, it’s bumped up to $19.99
It’s 22usd here to remove ads
Yeah, 22 Euros here as well. A little too much for just removing ads…
I was eagerly waiting to be able to pay to remove ads, but this pricing really struck me by surprise, was expecting it to be closer to the old pricing, but instead it’s like 4-5 times higher? Enough of a price increase to make me think twice, instead of immediately buying it like I was planning to.
You’re paying to support the dev. The ad removal is just a bonus, you could do that by other means.
The Lemmy community doesn’t even compare to Reddit’s. Of course it’d charge more. Well worth it though, Sync is fantastic.
I always pay to remove ads from apps I use, as opposed to using blockers, to support the devs, but this is the first time ever I see it cost this much.
Especially since Sync Pro (the ad-free version) for Reddit was like, less than 5€
And Sync pro have more function than this ad-free version planned to have.
I’ll pay if it’s in the oven a bit more, but not like this. This is barebone
Honestly, if you’re paying to support the dev, ads won’t even needed to be added to the app.
While I do like Sync and Laurence, your argument is far from the truth, there are people that will think about paying just to remove the ads. Supporting the dev will be just the bonus there.
Edit:
Also valid to say that a smaller user base don’t suddenly mean that you have to charge more, that thinking is, in all honesty, mind boggling to me.
On Reddit we had native ads, that paying for Sync Pro removed, a lot of tracking and data scrapping, well lots of negative points on using the official app, Sync there was a solution to have a better experience, here it’s just prettier (imo at least), smother, well polished and makes Lemmy feels like home since it’s the same way we used to browse reddit.
Other than that, it actually made the opposite, bringing ads to an ad free experience.
I know Laurence needs to have a income, everyone does. Sync is indeed awesome and being closed source is not a bad thing as some like to argue about, but again not an excuse to raise the price because there is less users currently.
If wasn’t for Lemmy existing Sync would be just dead. Simple as that, but I guess no one really think about this.
Anyway, I reached out to Laurence to see if there is a way Sync can at least help with instances also, that would make a huge difference on the way people feel about paying for a app that works on a 100% free and opensource platform.
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How do I remove the ads without the ultra subscription? I can only see the full ultra suite options.
maybe you didn’t update the app?
I checked and ensured there were no updates pending. Where is the ad removal options in the settings?
there is an option to just remove ads at 20$ one time payment.
There’s a discussion to be had about the pricing structure of subscription based apps, but I catch the drift you’re not here for a debate.
There’s two options here:
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you deliberately chose to ignore the cheaper $20 ad removal option and chose to engage in bad-faith flamebaiting instead
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you’re incompetent and never even saw the cheaper option and instead of chosing to leave sync behind and use one of the myriad of other apps, chose to engage in bad-faith flamebaiting instead.
Take that attitude of yours and get right the fuck out of here. Discussions like you’re inciting them are not welcome here. Get the fuck out, where you and that mental diarrhea of an opinion of yours belong.
RIF Golden Platinum was less than 5$ onetime. This app is equivalent to a web browser. It’s not like they are hosting lemmy themselves. No need for monthly subscription. Stop being a little bitch.
Take a deep breath, relax, no need to get all worked up.
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I know I’m cheap and I know this app is great and is a lot of work but fuck, this is expensive. Subscriptions are the worst model capitalism can offer. And the one time payment price is ridiculous, I can’t afford that.
Realistically it’s the only way he can sustain the development costs with such a small userbase. I’ve subscribed monthly to show my support. It’s not really that much money considering how much I use sync.
I did yearly and I’ll probably get lifetime once we’re out of beta. 18 bucks a year is the price for 1 month of Netflix, which ain’t that bad at all.
These models are designed in such a way that those who can afford to support do, and those who can’t afford to still have access through the free version.
They certainly don’t expect everyone to purchase ultra, let alone lifetime.
I recently cancelled my Netflix and Spotify accounts because of horrible support and constant rate hikes. It’s the perfect time to splurge and support a dev that deserves the money.
that is one time payment for sync ultra.
there is also a one time payment to just remove ads, at 20$.
I feel as though this information is left intentionally absent in this post.
App development ain’t cheap and lifetime subscriptions are an incredible deal if you like the features and intend to keep using the app for the next decade plus. But you’ve got to look at it that way or else it’s not worth it.
if you like the features and intend to keep using the app for the next decade plus and it remains available for that long
FTFY
Great point. I am not familiar with sync or the dev so I couldn’t speak to their reliability, although the outpouring of support suggests they’ll be active.
And most of the ultra features are things that require hosting or external paid apis.
the free one works well. and I got an adblocker I think
$50 wouldn’t have nearly as much of a negative reaction. $100 is awfully steep for a community as small as Lemmy.
But I’m glad the yearly sub is only $17, so I may get that instead.
I personally would never pay a subscription for a 3rd party Lemmy app. That defeats some part of why I moved to Lemmy to begin with.
It’s steep because Lemmy is a small community
A small community of people who are probably mostly not interested in paying quite this much for an app.
If this is what it costs to continue development then I’m going to be surprised if enough people pay it to ensure its long term viability as a business in the first place.
It’s not “only” $17, it’s $17 every single year, indefinitely. In six years you’ll be over the $100 price it’s at now.
Subscription services are a scam meant to quietly part a large population of their money without their realizing it.
First, $17 is a lot more affordable for some people. We don’t all have $100 we can just throw at a app whenever we like.
Second, a cheap yearly subscription is not a big deal to some people, especially those that want to help the dev out.
And thirdly, subscriptions are not scams unless you’re tricked into signing up for one.
I’ll be dead in 6 years.
We’ll all wish we were dead by then.
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at that price you could afford the reddit api… not that i’d want to
So I’m not an app developer, so I might be completely off base, but I don’t really understand a lot of the arguments against this.
Firstly, there’s an ad free one time cost that in my opinion seems very fair. Secondly, as I’m looking through the feature for Ultra, most of the features seem to be things that require an external server. I’m not sure how push notifications work so I can’t comment on it, but syncing settings across devices for example doesn’t happen at the instance level. That kind of thing could only be done through a server owned by the dev. However, it is very likely that the dev doesn’t own a server, and is instead renting on a VPS, which is a subscription for them. So in order to provide these particular services, the dev has to pay a subscription. So would it not make sense that those that enjoy the benefits of this subscription the dev pays, also have to pay a subscription? In my mind that simply seems fair, in order to support a dev that has clearly put a lot of time and effort into making a great app.
The user base for Lemmy is significantly smaller than Reddit. The dev needs a smaller number of people to be able to support the operating costs of the app (as well as the wellbeing of the dev) which means that necessarily a different (and steeper) pricing model would be necessary.
I do not think it’s fair to claim that Lemmy API access is free and therefore there are no operating costs, because there’s more to the app than API calls. It is indeed correct that API access is free, which seems to me to be the precise reason why there exists a free version of the app that you don’t have to pay for in the first place. All API calls within the app are free. There are no paywalled Lemmy API calls, at least from what I can tell. But again if I’m wrong I’ll admit it if someone can inform me.
I think you’re spot on and it applies in general to why we see a trend of subscriptions. When we all got our first smartphones, most apps were local and it didn’t cost the developer more if they had 1M downloads compared to if they had 50 downloads.
The thing is as always comparing. For that price there are things out there that had much bigger development and costs and offer better stuff, plus he had recouped most of the costs already when it was for reddit, yes there was new development of course but it wasn’t a new app. Apart from that this is not a service with big recurring expenses, the only exception is the cloud functionality and let’s be honest that also probably is cheap considering the size of the backups.
In any case I believe that the solution is as simple as not using it if people are not interested.
If the dev was fair, he would split the revenues of all the models with the instances to keep them alive. The free API call doesn’t matter if the instances close.
I think the ultra price for reddit was like 30 dollars for lifetime. 100+ bucks just seems like way to much.
Its $179 Australian. Absolutely not worth it to me.
For an app that you can’t even make a post from yet. I don’t care who you are, $180 for an app still missing basic functionality is always going to be a hard sell.
Eh.
People have been spoiled by the app store. Like I agree its a lot of money, but it also takes a lot of money to live, and if someone is a solo developer for a living then they depend on software sales. Lifetime purchases are tough. Once you get that money, the potential for more money from that customer is gone. Unless you follow a traditional software licensing model where you buy a version and upgrading past a major release requires another purvhase.
Im pretty sure he LJ has taken into account the heavily decreased sales potential of the lemmy market. Hes going to make substantially less sales, so he needs those sales to be worth it, especially if its a lifetime purchase. Its hard to strike a balance between worth it for the customer and worth it for the dev. Ideally the lifetime cost pushes would be purchasers towards an ongoing subscription while still providing value for both parties.
I agree $179aud us too much, and I wont be paying that myself, but I feel for LJ at the same time. Its not going to be easy making the money he may need to continue developing at the same rate.
Spoiled by the app store?
This is the same price as a windows 11 licence.
What is so app store about that?
Mas activator will help you with the price
Because people want to pay $1 or $2 for a full version of an app, and that may not be enough to justify development.
A windows license is still legacy software model. You dont buy a lifetime windows key, you buy a version key and have to pay again after a major update, although this looks like its currently evolving to a more free to play model. Microsoft has an exponentially wider audience who are mostly captive though, as opposed to LJ who has just had his audience dramatically reduced.
At the end of the day development takes time. Time is money. If LJ cant make a sustainable wage from sync they will have to work elsewhere and sync and its users are the ones who suffer.
I think Sync might end up hosting a Lemmy instance for ultra users. It could help user experience quite a bit
That wouls be a fine value add, especially if it integrated features into the server code that were open sourced and down streamed. That would add some real weight to that purchase price.
What would happen if you stop your subscription then? Lose your account?
There is no subscription though? It’s even written in the picture
Read again
My last app, Now for Reddit, charged $4 to unlock all the features of the app, including no ads.
Lemmy is still small. The dev can’t rely on tens of thousands of people on lemmy to buy Sync for $1-2 each like he could on reddit. The cost must be spread out on fewer users.
Well. I think it kinda works the other way around, I don’t think many people are going to spend a whopping $20 for an app to use a social media platform that’s not really taking off yet
You don’t have to spend $20. You can use it for free without limitations. Or you can choose to spend $20 to remove ads if you like the app and don’t like ads.
I haven’t seen an ad yet. I think. So. Free until o can compare this to the competition ain’t gonna be the biggest sacrifice.
wow isn’t that like 6 years of subscription? so expensive
I mean, I used sync for reddit for like 10 years.
Yeah, but Lemmy’s a newer platform and might not stick around for 6 years, IF it takes off like Reddit did. $100 is a bit too steep, if I’m being honest.
Then buy the monthly or yearly? The lifetime is just a third option.
I used Reddit Is Fun for so long I’m just sort of oblivious to tiny ads in my scroll feed.
But it’s not Sync, is Lemmy…
So?
Yea something in the 3ish year sub price would be more reasonable
8 years if you invest the money and get a 10% roi each year. Not that I was going to.
Just use FOSS apps for Lemmy. There are plenty good ones. Thanks to all devs and contributors!
Yup, I have the beta versions of voyager, memmy, and mlem on my phone and just alternately switch to whichever app gets a new update; or if one happens to be buggy or unstable.
The only thing missing for me in Voyager is push notifications. Anyone know how to make that happen on iOS?
But as much as I like voulyager, if Apollo converted to a Lemmy app tomorrow, I would def pay sync prices no ads.
Push notification actually cost money to run, so unless the dev has some money to burn (either out of their own pocket or donations) it probably won’t happen. Even Sync will only offer push notification for ultra subscribers.
That’s what I figured, and it’s one of the reasons that I’ll definitely pay for an ultra sub when an iOS Lemmy app arrives.
This. When it comes to Apollo like feel and UI, for now voyager is the only option, right?
Voyager is the only option as far as I know. And unfortunately, it seems Apollo dev Christian Selig is not interested in converting Apollo to use Lemmy’s api at this time since he seems to ignore comments that suggest it.
Try out arctius (fennec) app. It’s also a good one to follow. Though admittedly still incomplete
Shout-out to Thunder and Liftoff. I prefer the former, but Liftoff is great as well.
Nope
That’s wild. Like man I’m impressed with Sync and think it’s great but you’d have to be using it for 7 years for this to be worth it…Lemmy is so new you’d be mad to be making a gamble like this.
On the contrary, if you’re an avid sync users in the past (I did for 8 years), if you don’t make the gamble now, then it’ll be even more likely for the app to fail and go away due to the lack of funding.
At this price it probably will anyway because so few people will pay it.
With that high price and no regional pricing for a barebone app, if it failed, it’s on him. Only sucker pay for promises.
I pass
