Similar to the recent question about artists where you can successfully separate them from their art. Are there any artists who did something so horrible, so despicable, that it has instantly invalidated all art that they have had any part in?

  • Tetra@kbin.social
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    11 months ago

    Very boring answer but JK Rowling.

    Her books already had some questionable shit in them but witnessing that shockingly venomous transphobia really recontextualizes everything. I used to re read the Harry Potter saga every few years, but never again now, this whole, very nostalgic for me franchise is forever ruined now.

    • Hyperreality@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      Can I recommend reading/listening to Ursula K. Le Guin’s Earth Sea books?

      They’re also coming of age books about a young wizard, which almost certainly heavily inspired Rowling (although AFAIK she never admitted it), but the author is far less problematic. Also arguably much better books, so they’re more enjoyable to read for adults too.

      • ElderWendigo@sh.itjust.works
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        11 months ago

        And the cherry on top is this. You may notice a bit of misogyny built into a first couple books in the series, which is surprising given that Ursula is a woman. She not only noticed, admitted, and confronted that patriarchal slant, but corrected it by writing later stories in the same world that reversed that course. Those stories end up being much better than the foundational works in the series. I have become an instant fan of any author that can confront the flaws of their earlier writings and deliberately alter course to do better in their life and their writing.

        • PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Yeah, I actually read her last book in the series first, (it’s a distant sequel, very far removed from the rest of the series), and I can attest to the fact that she grew tremendously. I went back and read the first book, and was surprised at how different the last book was.

      • dragonfly@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Another great choice is The King Henry Tapes by Richard Raley. It’s a take on HP, but the magical kid from a dysfunctional family is a juvenile delinquent with a foul mouth. One of my favorite series.

        • frokie@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Hey I know that series! And agree, though I think the last few books kinda lost me.

            • frokie@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              Yeah if I recall correctly it was basically a mix between Squid Game and Hunger Games? Before either one existed.

      • leftzero@lemmynsfw.com
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        11 months ago

        Terry Pratchett’s Tiffany Aching books are also great alternatives (and a gateway to the rest of the Discworld books, which are also great).

        • groucho@lemmy.sdf.org
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          11 months ago

          Yep! Harry Potter doesn’t teach you how to be a wizard, but Tiffany Aching teaches you how to be a witch.

    • chitak166@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I always thought harry potter was boring as shit. Never got through a movie, never read a book.

      But the people who I did see reading the books in class were the ones who definitely would take issue with Rowling’s transphobia.

    • ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Her vehement and vocal hatred for trans people is pretty strange to me. She just won’t let it go, no matter the fact that her very vocal opinions on the topic are destroying her own legacy.

      I get that people are entitled to their opinions. But most people keep their thoughts to themselves if they start getting a lot of backlash. But she just keeps picking at it and making things worse for herself. I don’t know if it’s some sort of resentment born out of deeply hurt feelings, or unbridled arrogance that as a very rich and successful person people need to accept her opinions. Or maybe both. But it’s not working and she’s doing more harm than good, including to herself.

    • TheCannonball@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Try the Mage Errent series by John Bierce. It’s a full fantasy world with a hard magic aystem that’s about kids going to magic school.

    • Centillionaire@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      I looked up all her tweets, and I don’t see much to disagree with.

      If you go to Thailand, trans men are called ladyboys and if you ask them if they are women, they say, no, I’m a ladyboy. There’s nothing wrong with having the opinion that trans women will not be real women. She’s not saying she hates trans people, just that they will never be the same as biological women.

      • 520@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        Yes, but Thailand is not the entire world, nor was it even the target audience of those tweets.

        In the west, when you transition to another gender, it is because you want to identify as that gender. Thus when you say shit like ‘trans women aren’t real women’ you’re denying the identity of thousands of women worldwide.

        • chitak166@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          But… the west isn’t the entire world either.

          I think that’s the point. That culture matters and there’s not a one-size-fits-all interpretation or response that satisfies all of them.

          People in the west want to believe their culture is the best and all others should follow, but that simply isn’t how the world works. That won’t stop them from getting mad over it, though.

          • 520@kbin.social
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            11 months ago

            We are talking about a western author broadcasting on a western platform in a western language, often directly in response to other westerners or western ideas of transsexuality. Makes it pretty clear who the target audience and culture is.

            • chitak166@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              This may come as a shock to you, but a lot of westerners don’t believe in transexuality either.

              Hey, we’re talking about one right now!

              This is what I mean by thinking your culture is the best and all others should follow. Do you think Rowling would be justified if she tweeted in Thai? Lol. If not, then she isn’t unjustified for engaging with westerners.

              Try to understand your way of life is not the only, or even the best, way of life.

              • 520@kbin.social
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                11 months ago

                This may come as a shock to you, but a lot of westerners don’t believe in transexuality either.

                Hey, we’re talking about one right now!

                No, they believe that transsexuals are heathen abominations that should be stripped of all human rights and dignity. There is a difference.

                Try to understand your way of life is not the only, or even the best, way of life.

                Try to understand that your way of life should not get in the way of others trying to enjoy theirs when it doesn’t harm other people.

                • chitak166@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  they believe that transsexuals are heathen abominations that should be stripped of all human rights and dignity.

                  Some of them, sure. But some just disagree with the notion that trans-X are identical to their cis counterparts.

                  Try to understand that your way of life should not get in the way of others trying to enjoy theirs when it doesn’t harm other people.

                  I totally agree.

                  • Tetra@kbin.social
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                    11 months ago

                    It’s never been about proving trans and cis folks of the same gender are “identical”, no one is arguing that, obviously there are some physical, biological differences. Differences that trans folks are painfully aware of, and that take a lot of time and effort to mitigate for many them to feel like themselves.

                    It’s just about being accepted as, being seen, and talked to as the gender of your choosing.

                    People like Rowling who argue against the existence or the rights of trans folks overwhelmingly do so out of ignorance, fear, or simply malice. It’s not a philosophical question, it’s not up for debate whether trans people “exist”, if you don’t believe in them then you’re just objectively, provably, scientifically wrong.

                    And if you agree they exist and still want to make their lives miserable, then you’re just an asshole.

          • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            I am in the west and don’t think we have the best in every way culture. The more I travel the more I am aware of where we have plenty of room for improvement. I prefer living here, most people given the choice would as well, but that doesn’t mean best.

      • snooggums@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        Just because one group that has a passing resemblance to another group says something doesn’t mean that it applies to every group with a passing resemblance. Especially when the group is from a completely different culture.

        • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          What is a human? What is knowledge? What is virtue? What is justice?

          We have known for 2500 years that some words are very difficult to define in such a way that every single edge case is handled, it is complete, and short. The most famous example, 2500 years ago, was an academy defined human as a featherless biped. The next day someone released a plucked chicken.

          For those words that are very difficult to define we develop criteria and gradually alter the criteria as time goes on, mostly based on the idea of ordinary language.

        • 520@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          They mean people born with female bodies. So Cis women or FtM men.

          • Jaytreeman@kbin.social
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            11 months ago

            I want him to define it.
            Even cis women might not be ‘biologically female’
            It comes from a high school level understanding of genetics.

            • 520@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              I do get what you mean, it’s oversimplifying a complicated subject.

      • chitak166@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        A major issue is that she isn’t loyal and has her own opinions on the matter.

        Independents are seen as enemies in the eyes of tribalists. Eventually, they become enemies.